I’m spending months coding the old way • Hacker News Board

Re: I’m spending months coding the old way

#171

Post by Refreeze5224 » Sat, Apr 18, 2026, 4:30 AM UTC

scarface_74 wrote: post #126

mindcrime wrote: post #121

I'm a big advocate for AI, including GenAI. But I still spend a fair amount of time coding by hand, or "by hand + Copilot completions enabled". And yes, I will use spec driven development with SpecKit + OpenCode, or just straight up "vibe code" on occasion but so far I am unwilling to abdicate my responsibility to understand code and abandon the knowledge of how to write it. Heck, I even bought a couple of new LISP a…

My responsibility is to make sure my code meets functional and non functional requirements. It’s to understand the *behavior*. My automated unit, integration, and load tests confirm that. Someone thought I was naive when I said my vibe coded internal web admin site met the security requirements without looking at a line of code. I knew that because the requirements were that anyone who had access to the site could do…

Thank you for doing your part to keep webapp pentesters in business.

Re: I’m spending months coding the old way

#172

Post by dinkumthinkum » Sat, Apr 18, 2026, 4:44 AM UTC

scarface_74 wrote: post #153

losvedir wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't prevent the admin page from exfiltrating data, though, right? Like, POSTing whatever data is loaded on the page to an arbitrary attacker controlled website.

That would require the logged in user to do something stupid. That’s like saying what’s to prevent the authorized user from emailing his credentials to a random person.

You may want to go back and ask the expert in that vibe coding equation if it would say this is a wise approach.

Re: I’m spending months coding the old way

#173

Post by dinkumthinkum » Sat, Apr 18, 2026, 4:56 AM UTC

mchusma wrote: post #3

You should do what you want, and as a break it’s fine. But IMO right now the most leverage for most people is learning how to effectively manage agents. It’s really hard. Not many are truly good with it. It will be relevant for a long time.

When you say it's hard, what does that mean? Presumably, if the AI is so good, why can't you just ask it to do that? Why are you even needed?

Re: I’m spending months coding the old way

#174

Post by HDThoreaun » Sat, Apr 18, 2026, 4:58 AM UTC

AstroBen wrote: post #45

I wish more was being invested in AI autocomplete workflows. That was a nice middle-ground. But yeah my hunch is "the old way" - although not sure we can even call it that - is likely still on par with an "agentic" workflow if you view it through a wider lens. You retain much better knowledge of the codebase. You improve your understanding over coding concepts (active recall is far stronger than passive recognition).

AI autocomplete sucked. Everyone quickly moved on because it is not a useful interface

Re: I’m spending months coding the old way

#175

Post by dinkumthinkum » Sat, Apr 18, 2026, 5:04 AM UTC

JuniperMesos wrote: post #81

LeCompteSftware wrote: post #21

This is ominous and very depressing given what we've recently learned / reconfirmed about LLMs sapping our ability to persist through difficult problems: > There were 2 or 3 bugs that stumped me, and after 20 min or so of debugging I asked Claude for some advice. But most of the debugging was by hand! Twenty whole minutes. Us old-timers (I am 39) are chortling. I am not trying to knock the author specifically. But he…

Why shouldn't someone consult some kind of external resource for help, after struggling with a specific coding problem for 20 minutes? Why is 6 hours the right amount of time to timebox this to?

You will lose the ability to struggle through different problems. You will become psychologically weak. Degrees of time matter. Twenty minutes is about the time of a sitcom. If you can't sit with a problem then you will be weak and weak people make hard times. Oh well.

Re: I’m spending months coding the old way

#176

Post by dinkumthinkum » Sat, Apr 18, 2026, 5:09 AM UTC

voidfunc wrote: post #42

Trasmatta wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YES. I don't know how many multi WEEK sessions of debugging I've been through in my career. Frustrating, but so many valuable lessons learned in the process. LLMs are absolutely causing us to lose something very important.

If I told someone I spent a week debugging a problem these days I think I would get laughed out of the call. Even a day might hit somw chuckles. If you cant fix the bug just slop some code over it so its more hidden. This is all gonna be fascinating in 5-10 years.

What LLMs are you all using that solves every problem in 5 minutes? It is fast at some various classes of problems but the idea that they solve complex bugs that took serious engineers significant time, I'm just not seeing that. Where is all this amazing software and revolution we were promised? Why are there even bugs?

Re: I’m spending months coding the old way

#177

Post by dinkumthinkum » Sat, Apr 18, 2026, 5:14 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #57

Trasmatta wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YES. I don't know how many multi WEEK sessions of debugging I've been through in my career. Frustrating, but so many valuable lessons learned in the process. LLMs are absolutely causing us to lose something very important.

> LLMs are absolutely causing us to lose something very important The time wasted thinking our craft matters more than solving real world problems? The amount of ceremony we're giving bugs here is insane. Paraphrasing some of y'all, > "I don't have to spend a day stepping through with a debugger hoping to repro" THAT IS NOT A PROBLEM! We're turning sand into magic, making the universe come alive. It's as if we just g…

I mean, I know this may seem alien to you, but not everyone's life is about being a corpo good-boy. I don't know what career level you are but many people got into computing because they were really interested in it, not like a grad from 2016 that majored in CS because their dad said there was money in it and they should change their major from marketing. Also, there is something to be said for having people that still actually know what a computer is. What if your friends Altman and Amodei decide to start charging actual money for these tools? Sounds incredibly unlikely, I know, but it might be useful one day to have people that still know what the stack or the heap are.

Re: I’m spending months coding the old way

#178

Post by lkirkwood » Sat, Apr 18, 2026, 5:32 AM UTC

HDThoreaun wrote: post #174

AstroBen wrote: post #45

I wish more was being invested in AI autocomplete workflows. That was a nice middle-ground. But yeah my hunch is "the old way" - although not sure we can even call it that - is likely still on par with an "agentic" workflow if you view it through a wider lens. You retain much better knowledge of the codebase. You improve your understanding over coding concepts (active recall is far stronger than passive recognition).

AI autocomplete sucked. Everyone quickly moved on because it is not a useful interface

Why? I thought it was pretty good, just get the rest of your function a lot of times and no context switching to type to an agent or whatever. It just happens immediately and if it's wrong just keep typing till it isn't. You can still use an agent for more complex things.

I just wish I knew of a good Emacs AI auto complete solution.

Re: I’m spending months coding the old way

#179

Post by sagacity » Sat, Apr 18, 2026, 5:39 AM UTC

cobbzilla wrote: post #160

apricot wrote: post #86

I am this very term teaching 18-year-old students 6502 assembly programming using an emulated Apple II Plus. They've had intro to Python, data structures, and OO programming courses using a modern programming environment. Now, they are programming a chip from the seventies using an editor/assembler that was written in 1983 and has a line editor, not a full-screen one. We had a total of 10 hours of class + lab where I…

I love all of this, but at least let your students use vi, it was around back then (or close). plus they don’t have to give it up when they go back in the real world, it’s an evergreen skill!

To be fair, it's mostly an evergreen skill because people don't know how to exit.

Re: I’m spending months coding the old way

#180

Post by resonancel » Sat, Apr 18, 2026, 5:44 AM UTC

heyalexhsu wrote: post #144

AstroBen wrote: post #45

I wish more was being invested in AI autocomplete workflows. That was a nice middle-ground. But yeah my hunch is "the old way" - although not sure we can even call it that - is likely still on par with an "agentic" workflow if you view it through a wider lens. You retain much better knowledge of the codebase. You improve your understanding over coding concepts (active recall is far stronger than passive recognition).

I can see the logic behind "manual coding" but it feels like driving across country vs taking the airplane. Once I've taken the airplane once, its so hard to go back...

It's more like driving across country vs firing a missile with you being the warhead...