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Isaac Asimov: The Last Question (1956)

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Re: Isaac Asimov: The Last Question (1956)

#171

Post by PaulHoule »

keybored wrote: post #160
parineum wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it almost always is through cheaper products to the end user.

Renters are ecstatic as price of commodities are plummeting as house prices go up and up: “distracting myself has never been this cheap”, Anon. says. People think they can do one-sentence quips to describe how economies work.

This chart tells the story pretty well: to get it down to a quip "some things we want got a lot cheaper, things we need got a lot more expensive"

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/chart-of-the-day-or-century-3

The story of this decade is that people think the economy is terrible despite the usual metrics like unemployment and inflation being not too bad. One explanation is that before 2008 young people could get on the housing ladder but we quit building single family houses and it got harder to get a mortgage -- you see cranes in the air in many towns and sometimes 5-over-1s going for miles in some places like the DC suburbs.

Re: Isaac Asimov: The Last Question (1956)

#172

Post by pcrh »

ColinWright wrote: post #161
donatj wrote: post #133

There's a comic of this that circulated a number of years ago that I thoroughly enjoyed. https://imgur.com/gallery/last-question-9KWrH

Ah: Content Not Available Content not available in your region. Learn more about Imgur access in the United Kingdom

Alternate source for the comic:

https://www.behance.net/gallery/102075221/The-Last-Question

Re: Isaac Asimov: The Last Question (1956)

#173

Post by wat10000 »

fl4regun wrote: post #124
wat10000 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not believing that a prompt is an effective way to actually control their behavior is obviously incorrect to anyone who's actually used these things. It's not a guaranteed way to control their behavior, but you can more than move the needle.

yeah that distinction is pretty important, and in general that guy I believe IS making the point - if you can not control it with guaranteed outcomes - you cannot control it.

That's silly. My car is not absolutely guaranteed to turn left when I turn the steering wheel left, but you wouldn't say I can't control my car on that basis.

Steering an LLM with a prompt is way less reliable than steering a car with a steering wheel, but there's still control. It's just not absolute.

Re: Isaac Asimov: The Last Question (1956)

#174

Post by saghm »

gwerbin wrote: post #69
CGMthrowaway wrote: post #37

>INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR MEANINGFUL ANSWER Boy, it sure would be nice if real LLMs were capable of giving an answer like that.

They can do it, it's just not "by default", they need to be prompted to do it. So at least the danger is manageable if you know what you're doing and how to prompt around it.

"Just don't accidentally forget to do the thing that makes it safe" is not a very effective strategy for something that so many vested interests are trying to push into all corners of society. If it's so easy to misuse it, then it shouldn't be used in any context outside of where there are no major consequences for bad output and there's amble opportunity and ability to validate it

Re: Isaac Asimov: The Last Question (1956)

#175

Post by robrain »

robrain wrote: post #38
bitshiftfaced wrote: post #8

For a while I thought I really liked sci fi novels and short stories, and maybe that's somewhat true. But I've started wondering if maybe I just liked Asimov's writing in particular. Other writers in the genre are more hit or miss. Can anyone recommend other writers that are on his level?

Becky Chambers - Wayfarer series and several enjoyable short stories/novellas. Low on blasters, high on sentient life in all its many forms.

I know you can’t comment on modding - but seriously, someone voted me down because they don’t like a literary suggestion? Tough crowd.

Re: Isaac Asimov: The Last Question (1956)

#176

Post by redsocksfan45 »

bitshiftfaced wrote: post #8

For a while I thought I really liked sci fi novels and short stories, and maybe that's somewhat true. But I've started wondering if maybe I just liked Asimov's writing in particular. Other writers in the genre are more hit or miss. Can anyone recommend other writers that are on his level?

Alfred Bester; The Stars My Destination, and The Demolished Man.

Re: Isaac Asimov: The Last Question (1956)

#177

Post by wwweston »

wat10000 wrote: post #113
Bridged7756 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. They're still non deterministic language predictors. Believing that a prompt is an effective way to actually control these machines' actual behavior is really far fetched. They com like that from factory. Hardcoded to never say no.

Not believing that a prompt is an effective way to actually control their behavior is obviously incorrect to anyone who's actually used these things. It's not a guaranteed way to control their behavior, but you can more than move the needle.

The word most relevant to this conversation is “influence.” Influence is possible and users observe it and use it to increase margins of useful outcomes. “Control” is incorrect.

Re: Isaac Asimov: The Last Question (1956)

#178

Post by temp0826 »

throwaway132448 wrote: post #163
temp0826 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living in South America a bit really showed me this. I think it's a cultural thing here but someone will always give you an answer, even if it's wrong, confidently . It was hard for me at first- I am usually the first person to say "I don't know" (often followed by "but let's slow down and find a good solution").

Talking about South America as a homogeneous unit is… weird. Even neighbouring countries speaking the same language can be entirely different in this regard.

I agree (and I don't normally generalize like this, so I apologize). I've spent most of my time in Peru but noticed it in neighboring countries as well.

Re: Isaac Asimov: The Last Question (1956)

#179

Post by keybored »

parineum wrote: post #166
keybored wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Renters are ecstatic as price of commodities are plummeting as house prices go up and up: “distracting myself has never been this cheap”, Anon. says. People think they can do one-sentence quips to describe how economies work.

Housing is supply constrained and not tied to labor costs in a significant way. It largely is tied to the price of land in it's location. It's not going to get noticeably cheaper with cheaper labor and materials. Although, I can tell you that the products that one uses in a home have gotten cheaper (fixtures, flooring, etc) with a few exceptions, copper wiring and pipes for instance. Housing doesn't really fit into t…

> Housing doesn't really fit into the conversation at hand about cheaper labor leading to lower prices.

A conversation that you reframed from wealth distribution to the weirdly much more narrow “cheaper products for end users”. Even though wealth inequality has been studied plenty in itself.

I’m not buying the mind-commodity that you’re selling.

Re: Isaac Asimov: The Last Question (1956)

#180

Post by ColinWright »

pcrh wrote: post #172
ColinWright wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah: Content Not Available Content not available in your region. Learn more about Imgur access in the United Kingdom

Alternate source for the comic: https://www.behance.net/gallery/102075221/The-Last-Question

Thank you ...
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