Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Many African families spend fortunes burying their dead

davidoks.blog

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 245 posts

Re: Many African families spend fortunes burying their dead

#171

Post by kqr »

vasco wrote: post #160
kqr wrote: post #157

This was an eye-opener for me when I read C.A. Gregory's Savage Money . Our values, i.e. the things we do to gain the approval of each other, has a huge effect on how we live. Much larger than I had expected. Some people (not limited to Africa -- common also in e.g. rural India) value lifecycle rituals, like coming-of-age parties, marriages, and funerals. Those are the reasons they make money. They don't make money f…

You struggle to see how a society which has a system where you put requests from other people ahead of your own healthcare is not equal to one where you take care of yourself? Did you see the examples that those women started actually getting healthcare as soon as they had their own bank account? The picture you paint is about respecting what people do with their surplus money. The picture the article paints is that…

I'm fairly certain the bank would put mortgage interest payments above the healthcare of the individual even in my society.

Re: Many African families spend fortunes burying their dead

#172

Post by tomhow »

jrm4 wrote: post #130
tomhow wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don’t post sneering dismissals of imagined arguments on HN. We’re trying for curious conversation here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[flagged]

Hey, this kind of defiant strutting is not cool. It's fine to disagree with the article, and you don't owe the author anything, but you owe this community better if you want to participate here. HN is only a place where people like to participate because we have clear guidelines and many people who make the effort each day to uphold them. It's not OK to disrespect this community by acting as if the guidelines don't apply to you. A particular pattern in your comments is using capitalization for emphasis, which is explicitly against the guidelines. Please take a moment to remind yourself of the guidelines and take care to observe them in future.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Many African families spend fortunes burying their dead

#173

Post by dbdr »

cineticdaffodil wrote: post #163
madradavid wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did read that article; it is just a generic article about how funerals are expensive, you could replace Kampala with New York, and it would still hold. My point is that the Author has picked a practice by a couple of tribes on a Continent so diverse and large you could fit the states, the UK, and still have space for 30 or so more countries, and passed it off as the norm. Funerals can be expensive, anywhere. I don'…

That counter argument is valueless. Yes, it might be unequally spread but unless you can proof the locality of the phenomena the cliche still communicates. Not everything in the west is California but thanks to hollywood it is.

That sounds like a reversal of the burden of the proof to me. David Oks is claiming in his blog that "funerals keep Africa poor". The job of showing whether it is widespread and generally true in Africa belongs to David Oks, not to Madradavid.

Re: Many African families spend fortunes burying their dead

#174

Post by Semaphor »

madradavid wrote: post #142

I am Ugandan. These kind of burials are unheard of in my country. The Author is labeling this an “African” thing which is just the usual daft nonsense. A number of Ghanaian and Nigerian tribes bury their dead like this , it is more a celebration of life. This is like taking something a small town in Louisiana does and declaring it an “American” tradition.

My wife is Sotho from South Africa. While there were certainly a bunch of, to me, very strange practices when my FiL died, it was nothing like what was mentioned in the article.

That said, funeral insurance is extremely common in SA, as even normal burials can be pretty expensive.

Re: Many African families spend fortunes burying their dead

#175

Post by overfeed »

kingofmen wrote: post #140
overfeed wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a plausible argument that it’s causal. Europe had weaker kinship ties—for various reason Explain China[1] and its steep ascent, blowing past all European countries, and soon - the USA. 1. Or India, to a lesser extent. There's a lot of recency bias when it comes to economic outcomes, as if we're at the end of history. I'm guessing at least one 19th century British industrialist/gentleman probably praised th…

> China and its steep ascent, blowing past all European countries, and soon - the USA. China's GDP (PPP) is somewhere around $30k, depending on whose numbers you like, which does beat such lighthouses of Western capitalism as Albania ($25k) and Ukraina ($20k but they also have a good excuse), but isn't in any obvious danger of "blowing past" the likes of Serbia ($35k) and Bulgaria ($45k), much less the USA ($90k).

Oh, my bad - I didn't realize there were so many super-powers in Europe that the US considers peer adversaries. I suppose this century will belong to the Serbians then! The Big Mac index is what truly determines a country's trajectory.

Re: Many African families spend fortunes burying their dead

#176

Post by 3RTB297 »

madradavid wrote: post #142

I am Ugandan. These kind of burials are unheard of in my country. The Author is labeling this an “African” thing which is just the usual daft nonsense. A number of Ghanaian and Nigerian tribes bury their dead like this , it is more a celebration of life. This is like taking something a small town in Louisiana does and declaring it an “American” tradition.

1 million% agree - I've lived in Ghana and a number of other countries in West and Southern Africa. I've sadly attended many funerals in each place. These photos that visually drive the sense of opulence are entirely of Ghanaian fantasy coffins. I've only ever attended Ghanaian funerals with regular square coffins, and makers of fantasy coffins are rare, as is their use. Primarily by Ga people, who because they are from around Accra, tourists and foreigners have easier access to them. Already off to a biased start.

Beyond the poor writing of making this an "Africa" practice, it's also limited to Christians, and affluent ones at that. The Muslim burials I've attended are modest to the point of being barely even ceremonial.

While families do pour resources into funerals in Zim and other neighboring countries, it's doing things like hiring professional wailers and church groups to sing - paying the living for a service. Totally without irony, this is called "economic development" in other contexts. Families are hiring caterers, hiring drivers, keeping textile makers booked, supporting churches, hiring choral groups, printing banners. These a jobs for the living that also cement the family as stalwart members of the community. Almost none of the money is being buried in the grave and thus wasted. Typical "Africa is bad and weird" article - ill-informed, out of context data, and a Western-focused "only what I say is right" perspective.

Case in point, India has been bemoaned for its lavish wedding traditions - until someone decides it's time to praise it for being a significant part of GDP. https://www.kenresearch.com/articles/india-wedding-industry-...

Re: Many African families spend fortunes burying their dead

#178

Post by imadierich »

madradavid wrote: post #142

I am Ugandan. These kind of burials are unheard of in my country. The Author is labeling this an “African” thing which is just the usual daft nonsense. A number of Ghanaian and Nigerian tribes bury their dead like this , it is more a celebration of life. This is like taking something a small town in Louisiana does and declaring it an “American” tradition.

[dead]

Re: Many African families spend fortunes burying their dead

#179

Post by s5300 »

madradavid wrote: post #142

I am Ugandan. These kind of burials are unheard of in my country. The Author is labeling this an “African” thing which is just the usual daft nonsense. A number of Ghanaian and Nigerian tribes bury their dead like this , it is more a celebration of life. This is like taking something a small town in Louisiana does and declaring it an “American” tradition.

[dead]

Re: Many African families spend fortunes burying their dead

#180

Post by abenga »

HKH2 wrote: post #168
komali2 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of valid criticisms of the oft touted "happiness index." Off the top of my head from something I read a while back: Finland is listed as one of the happiest countries, but also has a higher rate than normal of prescribed anti psychotics and anti depressants, and also has high rates of alcoholism and suicide. Something isn't lining up there. My own anecdotal experience as well conflicts. When I travel through Sca…

I can't see how all the mental overhead of modern multicultural living can make you happier either.

Really? Having other cultures around you makes one unhappy now?
Post reply on HN