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Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

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Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#171

Post by jasonkester »

kn100 wrote: post #20

I got caught out by exactly this, and I'm not exactly tech illiterate. what made it even more annoying is by the time I'd realised what had happened, it was practically impossible to get the files back out of OneDrive (since I decided that this was enough Windows for me, and went back to Linux), since the webui does NOT handle downloading lots of small files well, and you just end up getting a partially complete zip…

From their point of view, that's the product working correctly. The whole point of all these consumer cloud storage products is to make it easy to upload your stuff and impossible to download it. (impossible - 1u to be precise, for legal purposes).

iPhoto does this the best. Its default is to upload every one of your photos to its cloud and delete the original from your phone. Then if you want it back, you can just click on the one photo you want and like magic, it's back on your phone. Want it on you PC? No problem. Open the web interface, click the one photo you want, and there's even a download button.

Want all your photos? Oh. Well, you can just click each one of them then click the download button.

I mean, sure, there's also this icloud app that will slowly download your entire photo collection into a single folder on your computer, slowing down the entire time before eventually grinding to a halt by the time it has put 10000 of your 250,000 photos into that folder. Of course, you can restart it, but it'll start again at the beginning.

But yeah, that's the business model. Put your stuff on the cloud, make it hard to get it back, charge you to keep it there.

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#172

Post by JumpCrisscross »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #169
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #146

Are the number of computers running Windows rising or falling? (Most curious for the U.S. and Europe.)

Windows share of the desktop market has been falling for a long time. https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide...

What's unknown?

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#174

Post by rk06 »

Arainach wrote: post #88
legitster wrote: post #67

We've really got to stop calling every bad UI a dark pattern. "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence." Having worked at MSFT I can tell you there's a LOT more incompetence than malice.

Forcing a cloud login for a desktop operating system is arguably a dark pattern. Defaulting to uploading all locally saved documents to cloud storage is ABSOLUTELY a dark pattern. The prompts every few months to "change back to recommended defaults" that make it easy to accidentally get into this state even if you made the correct decision previously to turn it off is a hellish black hole of a pattern. All three are…

I heard somewhere that Onedrive goes one step further, i.e. deleting local files and keeping them only in cloud. so when people delete file from onedrive, they find local files already deleted

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#175

Post by hparadiz »

lostlogin wrote: post #148
cromka wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had same exact experience with macOS and iCloud. macOS by default enables offloading Documents to cloud, transparently. Problem is if you try to get those files back to store them offline, it gets very tricky very quickly with ambiguous verbiage and lengthy process that you never actually know status of. I ended up losing some files as a result, which came as a total shock to me. I was already in the process of mov…

These is some weird bs there and it automagically sends everything up. Despite stuff being placed on the drive, it decides to upload them and only have a cloud copy. I thought maybe it was me that caused this, then it happened to a family member overnight. It’s painful.

I legitimately think this is exactly the type of thing that amounts to destruction of property with actual criminal penalties warranted.

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#176

Post by hparadiz »

4k0hz wrote: post #101
esseph wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> modern distro Let them cook... > Linux Mint Oh. :(

Modern != brand new shiny hipster thing. Unless you're a devotee of rolling release or unconvential things like Nix, Mint is not obsolete.

Mint lags upstream by years. Lol

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#177

Post by vachina »

vaylian wrote: post #167
vachina wrote: post #129

If you think this is egregious wait till you experience Apple products.

Can you elaborate?

-iOS by default uploads your entire Photo album to iCloud.

-iOS by default backs up all app resources to iCloud (so cloud native apps like Google Drive also gets backed up). You have to explicitly disable this backup app by app.

-Save to.. dialog on iOS defaults and resets to saving to iCloud’s “Downloads” directory.

-On MacOS, everything on the Desktop directory is synced to iCloud. You cannot delete the iCloud copy of files without also (it automatically) deleting the local copy.

-When you (very very easily) run out of iCloud storage (paltry 5GB), they made sure you know via nagging notifications, a dedicated header in Settings. Then they start warning you your iPhone is not getting backed up every now and then.

-They also don’t provide a way to use the same backup interface to make backups locally. You MUST use iCloud for backups.

I tolerate Apple products because the alternatives are worse (for now)

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#178

Post by laserlight »

deckar01 wrote: post #151

Microsoft used to have an app called Office Lens. It helped color correct and keystone adjust documents scanned with a phone camera. They pushed an update that gutted the app and said this app has been replaced by OneDrive. After installing OneDrive and dodging multiple dark pattern storage upsells, I discovered the OneDrive app doesn’t have any of the document scanning tools. I’m sure someone got a bonus for increas…

Wow. This is news to me. Office Lens had been my trusted scanning app for ten years. It was years ahead of Cam Scanner bullshit, which many people used, likely because of marketing.

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#179

Post by ddtaylor »

bloomingeek wrote: post #170
ddtaylor wrote: post #152

Microsoft has been disrespecting their user base for a very long time now. This is not news. Stop giving them your money.

I like/love your statement. The problem is, to their detriment, most users don't have the chops to switch to Linux/Apple.(Or the patience.) Since I couldn't afford Apple at the time, I jumped into Red Hat years age. What a nightmare! But I didn't give up because it was kind of fun. A lot of folks didn't think so. Linux and Apple have made tremendous strides, of course, but if tech stuff is not your thing, you keep fi…

Desktop Linux has been a little bit of a fragmented landscape over time, but I think that what keeps most organizations using Microsoft is that they have someone on staff dedicated to resolving all of these problems for all their users. Most organizations don't ask their regular employees to do things related to setting up software, making sure that they have access to network shares, etc, that's done by a dedicated IT staff that just happens to only be Windows right now for some reason.

Over time the web browser is becoming the only real software that is needed and that has simplified things.

Gaming has helped improve the Desktop Linux space, and Valve is a great force for change there. KDE has decent funding and adoption now.

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#180

Post by sznio »

ripharamberip wrote: post #112
Esn024 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Winhance for removing things like OneDrive and the option to KEEP them removed even if a future Windows Update tries to reinstall them. You can also save your configuration to easily get all your preferences back on a fresh Windows install. I use this instead of WinUtil (which I haven't tried yet... is there any way in which it is better?). Windhawk for quality of life improvements if you don't like some of Windows's…

It's just so crazy that we are living in times where a notepad can be too slow. Wtf has happened?? How can they mess up a fucking Notepad App? Luckily I switched to MacOS mostly some time ago. Also has its issue but nothing compared to winslop

> Wtf has happened?? How can they mess up a fucking Notepad App?

they made it use Electron

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