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Microsoft terminates VeraCrypt account, halting Windows updates

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Re: Microsoft terminates VeraCrypt account, halting Windows updates

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Full disk encryption protects from somebody yanking a hard drive from running server (actually happens) or stealing a laptop. Both of these are super easy to solve without secure boot: The device uses FDE and the key is provided over the network during boot, in the laptop case after the user provides a password. Doing it this way is significantly more secure than using a TPM because the network can stop providing t…

> The device uses FDE and they key is provided over the network during boot, in the laptop case after the user provides a password. Sounds nice on paper, has issues in practice: 1. no internet (e.g. something like Iran)? Your device is effectively bricked. 2. heavily monitored internet (e.g. China, USA)? It's probably easy enough for the government to snoop your connection metadata and seize the physical server. 3. n…

they said network, not internet :)

Re: Microsoft terminates VeraCrypt account, halting Windows updates

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no real advantage of a central signing authority. If you use Debian the packages are signed by Debian, if you use Arch they're signed by Arch, etc. And then if one of them gets compromised, the scope of compromise is correspondingly limited. You also have the verification happening in the right place. The person who maintains the Arch curl package knows where they got it and what changes they made to it. Som…

All PKI topologies have tradeoffs. The main benefit to a centralized certification/signing authority is that you don't have to delegate the complexity of trust to peers in the system: a peer knows that a signature is valid because it can chain it back to a pre-established root of trust, rather than having to establish a new degree of trust in a previously unknown party. The downside to a centralized authority is that…

> a peer knows that a signature is valid because it can chain it back to a pre-established root of trust, rather than having to establish a new degree of trust in a previously unknown party.

So the apt binary on your system comes with the public keys of the Debian packagers and then verifies that packages are signed by them, or by someone else whose keys you've chosen to add for a third party repository. They are the pre-established root of trust. What is obtained by further centralization? It's just useless indirection; all they can do is certify the packages the Debian maintainers submit, which is the same thing that happens when they sign them directly and include their own keys with the package management system instead of the central authority's, except that now there isn't a central authority to compromise everyone at once or otherwise introduce additional complexity and attack surface.

> PKIs like the Web PKI mediate this by having multiple central authorities (each issuing CA) and forcing them to engage in cryptographically verifiable audibility schemes that keep them honest (certificate transparency).

Web PKI is the worst of both worlds omnishambles. You have multiple independent single points of failure. Compromising any of them allows you to sign anything. Its only redeeming quality is that the CAs have to compete with each other and CAA records nominally allow you to exclude CAs you don't use from issuing certificates for your own domain, but end users can't exclude CAs they don't trust themselves, most domain owners don't even use CAA records and a compromised CA could ignore the CAA record and issue a certificate for any domain regardless.

> It's worth noting that the kind of "small trusted keyring" topology used by Debian, Arch, etc. is a form of centralized signing. It's just an ad-hoc one.

Only it isn't really centralized at all. Each package manager uses its own independent root of trust. The user can not only choose a distribution (apt signed by Debian vs. apt signed by Ubuntu), they can use different package management systems on the same distribution (apt, flatpak, snap, etc.) and can add third party repositories with their own signing keys. One user can use the amdgpu driver which is signed by their distribution and not trust the ones distributed directly by AMD, another can add the vendor's third party repository to get the bleeding edge ones.

This works extremely well. There are plenty of large trustworthy repositories like the official ones of the major distributions for grandma to feel safe in using, but no one is required to trust any specific one nor are people who know what they're doing or have a higher risk tolerance inhibited from using alternate sources or experimental software.

Re: Microsoft terminates VeraCrypt account, halting Windows updates

#173
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple also holds back the tech industry in many ways. All companies seem willing to put profits before progress.

active directory and excel runs the world. what is apple doing that is similar?

How is active directory and excel holding the tech industry back?

Apple is holding the tech industry back by forbidding any browser on iOS except Safari and then refusing to implement any APIs that would allow web applications to compete with their app store. Apple is choosing profit over progress.

Re: Microsoft terminates VeraCrypt account, halting Windows updates

#174
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Secure Boot provides no useful security for an individual user on the machine they own, and as such should be disabled by default. If you want to enable it for enterprise/business situations, thats fine, but one should be clear about that. Otherwise you get the exact Microsoft situation you mentioned and also no one knows about it.

So everyday users should be vulnerable to bootkits and kernel-mode malware...why, exactly? That is useful security. The fact that people do not pursue this type of malware very frequently is an effect of SB proliferation. If it were not the default then these attacks would be more popular.

[flagged]

Re: Microsoft terminates VeraCrypt account, halting Windows updates

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

agree, because "free" can be neither "cheap" nor "expensive"

It's not free at all. If you buy Windows through the official channels it's quite expensive. If you buy it on the grey market, it's dirt cheap, though.

And even if you pay $1,000,000/day to use it, it still spies on you and sells your data to outsiders.

Re: Microsoft terminates VeraCrypt account, halting Windows updates

#176
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is absolutely not. It's a decent one for "locks on an apartment building that someone else owns." But no, purchasing a house ought not include by default "a set of locks that you must work around, permission-wise."

Funnily enough, when you buy a house, the first task is to change all the locks. Y’know, for security.

Sure. Now, of the people who buy houses -- how many of them would find this a difficult or onerous task?

And then, do computers.

Apples and oranges here, for this point.

Re: Microsoft terminates VeraCrypt account, halting Windows updates

#177
It's okay. I'm pretty sure after 40+ years of using Microsoft products I'm going to switch fully to Linux and MacOS. I'm tired of fighting against Microsoft even though I am a long time (and mostly happy) user of Windows. But whatever is going on in the last few years, especially Recall, has made it dangerous in my opinion to keeping Windows. So as they become and more draconian it only makes my decision easier and easier. I've had Macs and Macbooks for a while now but I bought the latest Macbook Pro and I'm very very happy with it, despite Glass (I barely notice any differences from the previous version).

Re: Microsoft terminates VeraCrypt account, halting Windows updates

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The device uses FDE and they key is provided over the network during boot, in the laptop case after the user provides a password. Sounds nice on paper, has issues in practice: 1. no internet (e.g. something like Iran)? Your device is effectively bricked. 2. heavily monitored internet (e.g. China, USA)? It's probably easy enough for the government to snoop your connection metadata and seize the physical server. 3. n…

> no internet (e.g. something like Iran)? Your device is effectively bricked. If your threat model is Iran and you want the device to boot with no internet then you memorize the long passphrase. > heavily monitored internet (e.g. China, USA)? It's probably easy enough for the government to snoop your connection metadata and seize the physical server. The server doesn't have to be in their jurisdiction. It can also us…

> If your threat model is Iran

Well... they wouldn't be the first ones to black out the Internet either. And I'm not just talking about threats specific to oneself here because that is a much different threat model, but the effects of being collateral damage as well. Say, your country's leader says something that makes the US President cry - who's to say he doesn't order SpaceX to disable Starlink for your country? Or that Russia decides to invade yet another country and disables internet satellites [1]?

And it doesn't have to be politically related either, say that a natural disaster in your area takes out everything smarter than a toaster for days if not weeks [2].

> If your BIOS or bootloader is compromised then so is your OS.

well, that's the point of the TPM design and Secure Boot: that is not true any more. The OS can verify everything being executed prior to its startup back to a trusted root. You'd need 0-day exploits - while these are available including unpatchable hardware issues (iOS checkm8 [3]), they are incredibly rare and expensive.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viasat_hack

[2] https://www.telekom.com/de/blog/netz/artikel/lost-place-und-...

[3] https://theapplewiki.com/wiki/Checkm8_Exploit

Re: Microsoft terminates VeraCrypt account, halting Windows updates

#179
post #126

This is precisely why we can't allow platform-owners to be the arbiters of what software is allowed to run on our devices. Any software signing that is deemed to be crucial for ensuring grandma-safety needs to be delegated to independent third parties without perverse incentives. This is what the Digital Markets Act is supposed to protect developers against. Have there been any news regarding EU's investigation into…

There is nothing stopping you from using third party certificates to sign Windows binaries. It's just expensive. You don't even need a MS toolchain or CLI tool for it.

> It's just expensive

So yes there is.

Re: Microsoft terminates VeraCrypt account, halting Windows updates

#180
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So everyday users should be vulnerable to bootkits and kernel-mode malware...why, exactly? That is useful security. The fact that people do not pursue this type of malware very frequently is an effect of SB proliferation. If it were not the default then these attacks would be more popular.

[flagged]

You're arguing for not wearing seatbelts because no evidence has been shown that anyone has ever been saved by wearing one has been presented. That's just stupid by refuting ubiquitously understood data and facts.

SecureBoot ensures a valid, signed OS is installed and that the boot process generally hasn't been completely compromised in a difficult-to-mitigate manner. It provides a specific guarantee rather than universal security. Talking about "many vectors" has nothing to do with SecureBoot or boot-time malware.

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