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They're made out of meat (1991)

terrybisson.com

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Re: They're made out of meat (1991)

#171

Post by joezydeco »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #122
joezydeco wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good visualization but they skipped the punchline , which was the entire purpose of the story.

Yeah, I found this was definitely a case of "the book was much better than the movie", especially odd since most of the dialog was word-for-word, yet they skipped over the small parts that gave the story its lesson and relatability. Like the whole "officially or unofficially" part is one of my favorite parts of the original story, as it makes it seem like these intergalactic beings have to deal with the same concerns…

Well said, thank you.

Re: They're made out of meat (1991)

#172

Post by indoordin0saur »

jhbadger wrote: post #78
indoordin0saur wrote: post #62

I think this story is tacky and doesn't really make sense. Do they already know what meat is? And if so, why do they act surprised when they find that lifeforms are "made" of it? Why even do they have an opinion on "meat"? I find it good for a chuckle perhaps but there's nothing profound in here.

It has something to say if you compare it to the traditional arguments against the possibility of AI like Searle's terrible "Chinese Room" analogy - the point is arguing that computers can't possibly think because they are "just machines following programming" is a lot like these mechanical aliens believing that the idea of thinking meat is absurd.

I think you completely missed the point about the Chinese Room. The assertion wasn't that machines can't think or compute, but that they don't necessarily have any experience of the thing they are computing. We still have not the faintest idea where consciousness comes from and the Chinese Room thought experiment I think demonstrates this.

Re: They're made out of meat (1991)

#174

Post by dooglius »

timonoko wrote: post #159

Why is "They Were Made Out Of Meat" Hacker News favourite, but "Bordered in Black" is always flagged? Gemini: In short, "They're Made Out of Meat" makes people feel smart and curious, while "Bordered in Black" makes people feel uncomfortable and argumentative—and on Hacker News, "uncomfortable and argumentative" is a fast track to being flagged.

Do you have an example of it being flagged? I only see one old post from 7 years ago (not flagged), and that links to a scribd pdf rather than the author's website

Re: They're made out of meat (1991)

#175

Post by ryeights »

indoordin0saur wrote: post #172
jhbadger wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has something to say if you compare it to the traditional arguments against the possibility of AI like Searle's terrible "Chinese Room" analogy - the point is arguing that computers can't possibly think because they are "just machines following programming" is a lot like these mechanical aliens believing that the idea of thinking meat is absurd.

I think you completely missed the point about the Chinese Room. The assertion wasn't that machines can't think or compute, but that they don't necessarily have any experience of the thing they are computing. We still have not the faintest idea where consciousness comes from and the Chinese Room thought experiment I think demonstrates this.

The original formulation of Chinese Room deals with ‘understanding’. One supposes that understanding implies some form of subjective experience. I take OP’s use of ‘think’ to refer to an equivalent concept

Re: They're made out of meat (1991)

#176

Post by IAmBroom »

teapot7 wrote: post #164
Timwi wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You saying “bear mode activated” reminds me of Dicey Dungeons... (For those who don't know, there's a place in the game where, with a moderate amount of luck, you can trigger an item that transforms you into a bear, which changes your stats and available equipment, and you remain that way for the entire rest of the dungeon)

I am in fact a bear at this very moment.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/the-most-reprinted...

Re: They're made out of meat (1991)

#177

Post by ryeights »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #155
ryeights wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it surprising? It seems likely you could build a complete working model of the universe with no provision for consciousness at all. As far as modern science goes, it's an intractable problem

You can do it with no provision for molecules too.

That wouldn’t be complete though. I mean that an outside observer could view a simulation of the universe by your model, down to the subatomic particle level, and find no differences with the real world. There is no measurable “consciousness field” as far as we know, so how can our science even begin to approach the topic?

Re: They're made out of meat (1991)

#178

Post by jhbadger »

indoordin0saur wrote: post #172
jhbadger wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has something to say if you compare it to the traditional arguments against the possibility of AI like Searle's terrible "Chinese Room" analogy - the point is arguing that computers can't possibly think because they are "just machines following programming" is a lot like these mechanical aliens believing that the idea of thinking meat is absurd.

I think you completely missed the point about the Chinese Room. The assertion wasn't that machines can't think or compute, but that they don't necessarily have any experience of the thing they are computing. We still have not the faintest idea where consciousness comes from and the Chinese Room thought experiment I think demonstrates this.

The problem is all this talk of "onsciousness" is vague. It's like "free will" -- it's just words, not a real objective thing that can possibly be studied objectively. It's just that people are vain. We wanted to believe we lived at the center of the universe (or at least our collection of planets) and Copernicus taught us otherwise. Then we believed we were of a different sort of being than the animals until Darwin taught us otherwise. True machine intelligence (although we aren't there yet) frightens us in a very similar sense.

Re: They're made out of meat (1991)

#179

Post by aidenn0 »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #47
fridder wrote: post #6

The short film someone made is pretty great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6JFTmQCFHg

I'm a big fan of Tom Noonan (the character in red). He unfortunately passed away a few weeks ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Noonan

How does one get Tom Noonan to play in a film-school movie?
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