Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones • Hacker News Board

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#171

Post by upofadown » Wed, Apr 08, 2026, 10:58 AM UTC

Seems to be some misunderstanding of what bike bells are for here...

A bell is helpful in a situation where a pedestrian is not aware of an approaching bike. The bell informs the pedestrian of two things:

1. That there is an approaching bike.

2. Roughly were the bike is approaching from.

The hope is that the pedestrian will then behave in a predictable way to allow a safe pass by the bike. In almost all cases the pedestrian will be able to simply continue doing what they were doing before they heard the bell.

If a pedestrian can not hear bike bells, for whatever reason, that is not a problem. They can just stay consistent with the centreline of the path/road/way. They then have a responsibility to shoulder check when shifting from side to side.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#172

Post by lxgr » Wed, Apr 08, 2026, 10:59 AM UTC

Phemist wrote: post #169

lxgr wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you know of a simple technical solution to transform the entire world into the Netherlands, I'm all ears!

https://translate.kagi.com/nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geschiedeni... This could serve as the blueprint I guess, skip to the part about the 70s and 80s protests. Collective and popular protests helped by an oil crisis, recognizing vested interests in other modes of transportation (cars) that might want to work against your efforts.

> Collective and popular protests helped by an oil crisis

Sounds neither simple nor technical.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#173

Post by lxgr » Wed, Apr 08, 2026, 11:01 AM UTC

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #152

lxgr wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do horns and bells really prevent accidents? They absolutely do, for indirect reasons: > Generally it's a lot easier just to press the brake Maybe easier, but it hardly seems fair, nor realistic. With a bit of experience, you can tell when pedestrians are likely to stumble onto the bike lane without looking. Then you have two choices: Significantly reduce your speed, or ring your bell first and only reduce speed if…

I get your point about not wanting to reduce speed, but it's worth considering how the law might react in a worse-case scenario. Here in the UK, there was an infamous case of Charlie Alliston who ended up getting a ridiculous 18 months prison sentence after colliding with a pedestrian who hit her head and subsequently died. He was riding a "fixie" without a front brake and was cycling at around 18mph through some gre…

To be clear, I am still reducing my speed if I don't get positive confirmation that I've been noticed or if there's not enough time for a reaction to even happen.

My bell just gives me the significant improvement of possibly getting a reaction from the pedestrian long before I need to start braking.

However, not everybody does cycle like that. And while legally and ethically dubious, the bell still helps in that case as well.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#174

Post by wizzwizz4 » Wed, Apr 08, 2026, 11:01 AM UTC

broken-kebab wrote: post #148

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we enforce seatbelts? (1) Assume the public aren't stupid. (2) Assume the public aren't murderers. (3) Explain the risk-benefit analysis through informative videos like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_(1998_film) . People can shout "domestic terror" all they like, but if it's not true, it's not true.

You are answering different question. What you are saying is called awareness campaign or something. Enforcement of seatbelts is done by police with fines/tickets and is possible cause it's visible from outside. Other things like loudness levels inside cars cannot be monitored without going in full totalitarian mode.

Why would enforcement be necessary, given assumptions 1 and 2 (not stupid, not murderers), and awareness? Around these parts, seatbelt enforcement isn't necessary because everyone voluntarily wears their seatbelt – except for children, occasionally, but the adults are generally capable of enforcing that. (Even teenagers / young adults being irresponsible in cars generally wear seatbelts while doing so.)

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#175

Post by 0x3f » Wed, Apr 08, 2026, 11:03 AM UTC

lxgr wrote: post #170

0x3f wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you only reduce speed, you'll be traveling at a very low average speed, and time is money Well this is a bit of an appeal to consequences. I would say (a) this is a very good reason to build dedicated infra, and (b) if something ever does happen, a court is really not going to take this line of reasoning very well, so be careful with it... even if in practice it's how you consider it.

I'm completely in favor of building dedicated infrastructure, but I can't do that by myself. (Also, how do you prevent pedestrians from crossing said dedicated infrastructure without looking? Should it be fenced off? But I agree that there are better and worse implementations of dedicated bike lanes.) What would you suggest cyclists do until that happens? Never go faster than walking speed? Then I can leave my bike a…

> What would you suggest cyclists do until that happens? Never go faster than walking speed? Then I can leave my bike at home. Cycle on the road, where cars can hit me, instead of the dedicated bike lane, use of which is often mandatory?

I don't know where you live but it's quite unusual here to be cycling through areas that have a lot of pedestrians. If the bike lane is a dedicated one, pedestrians are very rarely in it. But yes if all else fails, the road is preferable to the pavement if you're unwilling to cycle slowly enough.

> how do you prevent pedestrians from crossing said dedicated infrastructure without looking?

That's a UX problem. You can also ask how to prevent cars driving on the cycle lane. Which we do in a multitude of ways. You just need to physically communicate segregation and danger.

> A court will rule in favor of the pedestrian stepping onto a bike lane without looking getting hit by a bike that's too close to do anything?

Here, absolutely, if they consider the cyclist is going too fast for the conditions. There's a concept of a hierarchy whereby the more vulnerable class is almost assumed not to be at fault. Same for a car hitting a cyclist, or a motorbike, even.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#176

Post by Phemist » Wed, Apr 08, 2026, 11:05 AM UTC

lxgr wrote: post #172

Phemist wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://translate.kagi.com/nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geschiedeni... This could serve as the blueprint I guess, skip to the part about the 70s and 80s protests. Collective and popular protests helped by an oil crisis, recognizing vested interests in other modes of transportation (cars) that might want to work against your efforts.

> Collective and popular protests helped by an oil crisis Sounds neither simple nor technical.

Nope, but now the worldwide geopolitical situation is such that it might at least be feasible?

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#177

Post by wizzwizz4 » Wed, Apr 08, 2026, 11:10 AM UTC

lxgr wrote: post #151

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we enforce seatbelts? (1) Assume the public aren't stupid. (2) Assume the public aren't murderers. (3) Explain the risk-benefit analysis through informative videos like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_(1998_film) . People can shout "domestic terror" all they like, but if it's not true, it's not true.

Wearing a seatbelt cost next to nothing in inconvenience. Not being able to listen to music or have phone calls with noise cancellation while walking does not really compare. Of course this requires compensating for the loss in awareness through hearing by looking more diligently before crossing a bike lane, but unfortunately, some people never learn this, or only through a few close calls. "Annoyingly" ringing a bel…

"Next to nothing in inconvenience" is the perception now. It certainly wasn't the perception when seatbelts were introduced. The ability to listen to personal music while walking is less than 50 years old: before that, you had the radio or nothing. Even that would not be an intolerable inconvenience for most. But I was more thinking:

> People should not hear loud music when driving - max is normal speaking voice level.

which feels like a more than acceptable constraint to me.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#178

Post by lxgr » Wed, Apr 08, 2026, 11:15 AM UTC

0x3f wrote: post #175

lxgr wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm completely in favor of building dedicated infrastructure, but I can't do that by myself. (Also, how do you prevent pedestrians from crossing said dedicated infrastructure without looking? Should it be fenced off? But I agree that there are better and worse implementations of dedicated bike lanes.) What would you suggest cyclists do until that happens? Never go faster than walking speed? Then I can leave my bike a…

> What would you suggest cyclists do until that happens? Never go faster than walking speed? Then I can leave my bike at home. Cycle on the road, where cars can hit me, instead of the dedicated bike lane, use of which is often mandatory? I don't know where you live but it's quite unusual here to be cycling through areas that have a lot of pedestrians. If the bike lane is a dedicated one, pedestrians are very rarely i…

> If the bike lane is a dedicated one, pedestrians are very rarely in it.

Pedestrians step onto the dedicated bike lane I use to commute on average at least once per way for me.

> But yes if all else fails, the road is preferable to the pavement if you're unwilling to cycle slowly enough.

Of course I'm taking the road if there's no dedicated bike lane. Cycling faster than walking speed on the sidewalk seems reckless to me.

> That's a UX problem. You can also ask how to prevent cars driving on the cycle lane. Which we do in a multitude of ways. You just need to physically communicate segregation.

Yes, but I can only use the bike lane that already exists. Of course I prefer the ones with better UX.

> There's a concept of a hierarchy whereby the more vulnerable class is almost assumed not to be at fault.

Not where I live. You are allowed to e.g. trust adult pedestrians without any visible signs of impairment to not randomly step into the road. Otherwise, driving cars next to sidewalks or crossing intersections would only be possible at walking speed as well.

Of course, if you already see somebody approaching the road, somebody walking unsteadily, visibly intoxicated etc. you are obliged to still brake preemptively. The question here is whether visible noise-cancelling headphones would be considered a similar visible impairment, I suppose.

Personally, I just always assume I haven't been noticed, because ultimately I don't want to run somebody over even if I would be legally in the clear. That's a different story, though.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#179

Post by Markoff » Wed, Apr 08, 2026, 11:15 AM UTC

croemer wrote: post #163

Fun fact: Škoda means "pity" or "damage" in Czech, can also be used as "what a shame". Happened to be the company founder's surname.

it is quote common family name in Czechia, my daughter's classmate has this family name as well

same with most of the Japanese car brands or even Citroen, Peugeot...

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#180

Post by xx_ns » Wed, Apr 08, 2026, 11:17 AM UTC

jeroenhd wrote: post #122

Phemist wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real problem is that cyclists and pedestrians apparently in some countries share space commonly enough that this is necessary? In the Netherlands, bicycle utopia, I cannot remember the last time I used my bell to alert a pedestrian of my existence. Granted, I never cycle in Amsterdam, but that is a special location where high-powered ship horns are probably required. Regarding ANC, I naturally turn it off while c…

I don't know why, but sometimes this is done intentionally. In my (Dutch) city, there is this infuriating piece of road where the bicycle path suddenly gets routed onto the kerb, intentionally mixing bikes and pedestrians. I believe the theory is that bikes will go slower so pedestrians don't need to worry about crossing the road as much or something. Predictably, lots bikes are taken by surprise, either brake hard a…

I wish my city only had a single case like that. Unfortunately, in Tallinn, it is extremely common that a bike path is suddenly routed onto the curb, and that's when you're lucky. For some paths, the path just... ends, and you suddenly find yourself right in the middle of car traffic. Unfortunately, the city leadership is anti-bike and pro-car, and it shows in the infrastructure.

Paths where pedestrians and bikers (and other light transportation vehicles) are mixed are overwhelmingly common.