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In Japan, the robot isn't coming for your job; it's filling the one nobody wants

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Re: In Japan, the robot isn't coming for your job; it's filling the one nobody wants

#171

Post by seanmcdirmid »

pezezin wrote: post #32
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different from the USA, 7-11 in Japan and China are mainly self checkout at least, so they can technically run a store with less people since they don’t have to man cash registers to get people checked out.

I don't know about China, but I live in Japan and most konbini I have visited still have real human cashiers.

Huh, in Tokyo and Osaka I didn’t encounter a 7-11 without self checkout as an option. The smaller convenience stores sure, but not 7-11. China is much more aggressive in this regard though.

Re: In Japan, the robot isn't coming for your job; it's filling the one nobody wants

#172

Post by seanmcdirmid »

TurdF3rguson wrote: post #25
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different from the USA, 7-11 in Japan and China are mainly self checkout at least, so they can technically run a store with less people since they don’t have to man cash registers to get people checked out.

But who's going to unlock the expensive items from the plexiglass case?

You mean the hot food in the display case? They still have a person for that, but they aren’t taking money.

Re: In Japan, the robot isn't coming for your job; it's filling the one nobody wants

#173

Post by seanmcdirmid »

alephnerd wrote: post #24
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different from the USA, 7-11 in Japan and China are mainly self checkout at least, so they can technically run a store with less people since they don’t have to man cash registers to get people checked out.

This. Also there is a social backlash against Vietnamese, Chinese, and Thai service workers in Japan now (the people who tend to be working the counter at a kombini, but apparently Asians all look the same to Western HNers), as well as Western tourists. Edit: can't reply > I doubt many Chinese youths want to work for minimum wage in Japan Chinese are the 2nd largest nationality of foreign agricultural and food worker…

I saw Indian workers in convenience stores when I was there. I thought that was kind of cool.

Re: In Japan, the robot isn't coming for your job; it's filling the one nobody wants

#174

Post by shiroiuma »

alex43578 wrote: post #119
thfuran wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guarantee you that a lot more people would be willing to put up with it for $10 million a year.

Ok, but society can't bear the cost of $10M garbage men, so either people will do it themselves or go without. The same argument applies to any job: in most scenarios, it pays what it's worth to society at the market clearing price. The government can interfere via licensing, minimum wages, quotas, etc; but broadly the job pays what it's worth.

Society cannot function without garbage people. It must be done or society will collapse quickly, so society better find a pay rate that gets the job done.

Re: In Japan, the robot isn't coming for your job; it's filling the one nobody wants

#175

Post by shiroiuma »

NitpickLawyer wrote: post #154
renewiltord wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a North American quirk.

Maybe the particularities, but there are overall issues with placing in EU as well. There's a big discrepancy in general practice availability between large cities / capitals and smaller cities / country side. And it's not necessarily a lack of "living wages" nor is it poor conditions (often they'll have strong support from local municipalities w/ things like clinic space, local community support, etc) but it's simpl…

Yep, this is the same almost everywhere. You're not going to find many young people who will go to a university to get the qualifications to be a medical professional, and then willingly move back to their middle-of-nowhere small town to do that job, even if it pays more.

Re: In Japan, the robot isn't coming for your job; it's filling the one nobody wants

#176

Post by shiroiuma »

alex43578 wrote: post #115
canpan wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you share some other signs you think may indicate it rising as a powerhouse? Living in Japan, I am interested what others see. Regarding immigration, Japan is actually making it a lot stricter now. Not sure how that will play out.

[flagged]

The problem is that if you make the place feel very unwelcoming to newcomers because you don't want the people who bring problems, the people who bring value don't come either unless you're offering extremely high pay, which Japan does not.

Re: In Japan, the robot isn't coming for your job; it's filling the one nobody wants

#177

Post by alephnerd »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #173
alephnerd wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Also there is a social backlash against Vietnamese, Chinese, and Thai service workers in Japan now (the people who tend to be working the counter at a kombini, but apparently Asians all look the same to Western HNers), as well as Western tourists. Edit: can't reply > I doubt many Chinese youths want to work for minimum wage in Japan Chinese are the 2nd largest nationality of foreign agricultural and food worker…

I saw Indian workers in convenience stores when I was there. I thought that was kind of cool.

Yep!

It's a very recent shift that began in the last 3-5 years.

Traditionally, India never had a Japanese vocational program in the manner you'd find in Vietnam, Thailand, China, Phillipines, etc but in 2021 [0], the Japanese and Indian government began working on a vocational/blue collar mobility program [1] to build a Vietnam, China, or Phillipines style pipeline.

There will be a lot of Indians coming, but they will be cycled back in 2-3 year batches to then become floor managers and foremen for Japanese fixed investments in India. It's the model that Japanese automotive JVs in India operated on for a decade [1].

And it's was these kinds of vocational programs that helped dramatically upskill Chinese manufacturing in the 2000s and 2010s.

[0] - https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/govt-clears-india-jap...

[1] - https://www.jim-jec.in/

Re: In Japan, the robot isn't coming for your job; it's filling the one nobody wants

#178

Post by 9rx »

xvxvx wrote: post #90

The idea that automation, AI, offshoring, and low-paid migrant workers are filling jobs no one wants is pure evil bullshit. The main goal of business is to generate the most income with the least expense, labor being the most cost for the most part. We're downstream from indentured servitude and literal slavery, and probably one bad event away from going back.

> The main goal of business is to generate the most income with the least expense

That's the goal of small business. It is the only way to stay afloat and try to grow while allowing the stakeholders enough to survive. Large business starts to generate so much income that it could never possibly spend it all anyway, so minimizing expenses doesn't really matter. What does matter, to the people running the show, is ensuring that they gain social status.

And for that you need visibility and connections. The way you get connections and visibility is to build impressive offices and fill them with notable people. The work might be technically pointless, but it generates a network of friends in high places and that is what provides social status. A trillion dollar business that is one guy in his parents' basement might sound appealing to the average software developer, but not to those who actually run these large companies.

Re: In Japan, the robot isn't coming for your job; it's filling the one nobody wants

#179

Post by samus »

thfuran wrote: post #104
youre-wrong3 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even tho you added an edit. You’re still wrong. Garbage collection is typically a high paying job because no one wants to do it. But people still consider it “below” them and don’t want to do it even when there’s a high unemployment rate.

I guarantee you that a lot more people would be willing to put up with it for $10 million a year.

I'm not sure you'll attract the right kind of people with that much money. Probably a lot of people looking for a quick buck will apply, do a good job for long enough to not get outright fired, collect a few cash checks, and then knock it off.

I think there would actually be enough people willing to do blue collar jobs if job security is alright. Low-status jobs are defined by low job security, not necessarily by harsh working conditions.

Re: In Japan, the robot isn't coming for your job; it's filling the one nobody wants

#180

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

shiroiuma wrote: post #174
alex43578 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but society can't bear the cost of $10M garbage men, so either people will do it themselves or go without. The same argument applies to any job: in most scenarios, it pays what it's worth to society at the market clearing price. The government can interfere via licensing, minimum wages, quotas, etc; but broadly the job pays what it's worth.

Society cannot function without garbage people. It must be done or society will collapse quickly, so society better find a pay rate that gets the job done.

This thread feels like it went off the rails given that every locale I've ever lived in (many across the US) had fine, working garbage collection, and plenty of competent garbage men who worked for what I'm guessing was decent pay, certainly less than $10 million a year.
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