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Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

theguardian.com

171–180 of 370 posts

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#171

Western car makers learned the hard lesson that, at least in most of Europe, electricity prices are far too high, EV prices are too high, and customers do know how to use their calculators. In Germany, the only thing propping up the EV market are tax subsidies for commercially used EVs, so company cars are very likely to be EV or at least hybrid. For the rest of sales? Only idealists buy EVs, and then only those with…

I'd love to see that math

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#172

America clearly has an EV industry (Tesla, Rivian) but its adoption is pretty limited by infrastructure.

I don't think this is true, at least for Tesla, which has a very mature and wide range of chargers almost everywhere. AFAIK, Rivian can also use Tesla chargers now.

I live on the eastern coast of the US. I travel for work up and down the eastern seaboard. Sometimes I ride with a coworker who drives his Tesla. The experience turned me off of ever buying one.

Yes, chargers are everywhere here. But making multiple “stops” to charge that you wouldn’t otherwise make definitely isn’t saving any time.

The seats are horrid.

Watching the windshield wipers freak out over nothing is funny.

“Full self driving” is a bit of a joke.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#173
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sooo... where's the retreat? https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gqyyly9v8o Volkswagen has said it will cut 50,000 jobs in Germany by 2030 as its profits dropped to their lowest level since 2016. It said it was hit by US import tariffs, intense competition from China and high restructuring costs from the shift to electric vehicles. https://www.cnbc.com/2026/03/13/honda-flags-first-annual-los... Honda to lose as muc…

That's not a retreat from EVs. Article seems to be gibberish, carmakers don't seem to be retreating from EVs.

You are free to believe what you want, I'm just presenting the data.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#174
post #69

Weird headline: Japanese carmakers are doing the same error, while Tesla (an American company) is the one of the leading electric carmakers... I'd just replace it with Legacy Carmakers (e.g. Ford, GM, Toyota and so on).

GM has a ton of EV models and has been doing a ton of EV investment, R&D, etc. How can you say they’re somehow not EV enough? I think this article’s author is an absolutist and believes any company that doesn’t go 100% EV regardless of market demand is stupid. I think that’s irrational. And I love my EV. But it’s going to take 20 years or more for the entire country to even get to a place where all your suburbanites…

5,000$ dollars! Do you mean to tell me that most people do not have any spare space on their electric panel for an extra 220v plug? I didn’t but that’s because my house was owned by cheapstakes who saved 100$ by installing a slightly smaller panel that few electricians I talked to had ever seen. That can’t be most people?!

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#175
post #121
post #17

VAG group has EVs (and pretty good ones) across the board: VW with ID series, Škoda with Enyaq/Elroq/Epiq, Audi with eTron series (SUV, sedan and estate), SEAT with Cupra Born and others. BMW just launched Neue Klasse, with iX3 selling like hot cakesa nd i3 looking amazing, with i7 in pipeline. Mercedes also launched a great new platform with CLA which is coming to other sizes as well. Meanwhile, Renault 5 is selling…

> Sooo... where's the retreat? https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gqyyly9v8o Volkswagen has said it will cut 50,000 jobs in Germany by 2030 as its profits dropped to their lowest level since 2016. It said it was hit by US import tariffs, intense competition from China and high restructuring costs from the shift to electric vehicles. https://www.cnbc.com/2026/03/13/honda-flags-first-annual-los... Honda to lose as muc…

> and high restructuring costs from the shift to electric vehicles.

I’m baffled how you think “it’s going to cost us a lot to shift to electric vehicles through 2030” could be read as “VW is retreating from electric vehicles”.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#176

no one is willing to admit the EV tech isn't just there yet to fully replace gas powered cars?

Everybody knows it won't fully replace it. It's impossible to go on a long off-road travel with the EV equivalent of 50L of gas in a jerrycan. But some are twisting the narrative to say that because of that reason EV will fail. Millions of people could use an EV in their daily life, just like I can go without a pickup in my daily life and rent one whenever I need one.

I’m not affluent enough to buy one car for my daily life and rent another for whenever I have to leave the city.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#177
post #130
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe will change their mind when protests start that many people can’t buy a car that they can charge because their home doesn’t have the capacity and public charging scarcity and congestion makes the 1970s gas rationing look convenient. Nearly all these carmakers already do make plenty of EVs. If I’m very wrong and people there wish to buy EVs exclusively, that’s what will sell and what will get made.

Their homes don't have electricity?

Many people live in apartments and they do not have a garage.

You cannot connect a cable from your home at the 10th floor to a car that may be hundreds of m away.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#178
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ford of Europe has succeeded because its direction and leadership are completely different to its American outfit, and has released models targeting European sensibilities. You will probably not find Mondeos or Focuses in the North American market. Nor will you (easily) find an F-150 in Europe. A Ranger, perhaps, but not the F-150.

You could definitely buy the Focus in the US.

The Focus is about the only European-designed Ford which really made it to the US in significant numbers (albeit somewhat late) at all, AIUI.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#179
post #90

The other day I was joking with friends about how I'd love to have a car with a deployable surveillance drone to help with parking and so if I'm stuck in traffic I could have my drone scout ahead and see what's up. Turns out BYD have one of those already! https://www.theverge.com/news/622963/byd-dji-vehicle-mounted...

This is both really cool and also fucking insanity - the lengths we’ll go just to avoid building better train service.

Re: Western carmakers' retreat from electric risks dooming them to irrelevance

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ford of Europe has succeeded because its direction and leadership are completely different to its American outfit, and has released models targeting European sensibilities. You will probably not find Mondeos or Focuses in the North American market. Nor will you (easily) find an F-150 in Europe. A Ranger, perhaps, but not the F-150.

You've shown your words to be meaningless. You said the U.S. car brands were "completely irrelevant" outside the U.S., here you admit that's wrong. You move the goalpost and change your assertion to something entirely different. But there is no reason to think this statement has any factual basis either. You're just talking out of your &ss.

Ford of Europe is arguably a European car brand which happens to be owned by a US company (in much the same way as Chrysler/Jeep etc are clearly American car brands, despite being owned by a European company).
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