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How to defer US taxes

taylor.town

171–180 of 186 posts

Re: How to defer US taxes

#171
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and when you do pay it's a lower "real" tax (due to inflation)

If I have X dollars and get taxed such that I have X * T after the taxing, say T = (1 - .20), then I invest and that money grows by a factor, say G = (1 + .50), over the years, then in the mean time inflation hits and reduces my money by a factor, say I = (1 - .10), so that what I end up with in the end is F = X * G * T * I. If instead I invested and grew and inflated and then got taxed, X * G * I * T, it would be ex…

If you take a loan against your larger capital pool, inflation helps you (to the extent it wasn't incorporated in higher lending costs).

But yeah that's a second order effect. There aren't really any scenarios where you have a fixed nominal tax that can be deferred without locking up the money, so I think you're mostly right that it comes back to lower tax rate and step-up.

Re: How to defer US taxes

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We collectively benefit if you give me $1000 and I give you $1. That doesn't mean it's a good deal.

Your example is zero sum; there is no collective benefit. Investment in roads enable commerce. Investments in education enable future technology.

And does our government do that? It seems we have one party that wants to pay for theatrical law enforcement and another party that wants to pay for performative DEI nonsense

Re: How to defer US taxes

#173
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easier than you'd think. The value of homes is very well known and assessed annually in many provinces (some have weirdly become laggards). So no real problem there. Any piece of art that is of any real value would have a provenance and it would be very well known what the value it was at any given time and at sale. If no one knows the artist or can determine the value it is very safe to say its value is nil.

House purchase price might be easy to determine; although old records aren't always great; certainly the price paid indicated on the front of the deed is often a formal requirement value, not the actual price, so hopefully the real price was written down on the recorded deed too. I wouldn't rely on assessed values, at least without a lot of cross referencing many jurisdictions setup assessments so that they reflect m…

yeah it's not perfect, but there's absolutely well enough data for the ballpark appraisal. Onus is not on the government to do any of this. So keep records folks.

I think the government now actually does keep tax records of buying and selling homes (became a bit of a question during the foreign buying debate) so going forward it's going to be no concern.

Re: How to defer US taxes

#174
post #55

> If you aren't actually reinvesting capital, pay your damn taxes. Don't be an asshole. Why? So my government has more missiles to blow up children? No thanks.

There are more productive ways to vote with your money than tax evasion. You can make tax-exempt donations, or start your own non-profit organization. Some people hoard money without building businesses, without participating in government, without contributing to welfare. People who take more than they give are assholes.

> People who take more than they give are assholes.

100%. I hate welfare leeches too

Re: How to defer US taxes

#175
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany, unregistering doesn't require registration elsewhere, but it doesn't mean you stop being tax resident. If you regularly return to Germany and generally to the same place there (i.e. family, friends), and you're not tax resident elsewhere, the tax administration will consider it your habitual abode. And, you guessed it, under the German Fiscal Code (Abgabenordnung), you are a tax resident if you have a dom…

> Plus, under Extended Limited Tax Liability [...] bank accounts [...] Plus, and I reiterate, the difficulty in obtaining a simple bank account without a TIN and proof of address in most countries. You're doing what so many people who make this argument do. You're taking an extreme example that laws have been crafted to tackle and using it to represent the norm. A normal German citizen with a normal amount of money l…

> A normal German citizen with a normal amount of money leaving Germany to become a nomad and travel the world, never establishing tax residency in any other country, will not need to open a bank account anywhere else

That will make you tax resident in Germany as all of your financial interests are in Germany. It's not an extreme example at all, it's the basic case to catch.

>My original assertion is that unless you are American (or, apparently, Italian) the normal person can up sticks one day and wander the world, and so long as they never establish tax residency anywhere,

Or Spanish. Or Belgian. Or French. Or Germany. Or basically any OECD country, and most non-OECD ones.

>they will be living an entirely legal tax free[1] life.

Legal as long as they don't generate any income, and even then, wealth taxes could kick in.

>Of course doing so requires giving up the things humans need, like stability, so it is a terrible life for most, but the point is, it is legal and easy.

It's really not easy at all to do legally, but at least we agree it's difficult to do emotionally.

>"illegally of course" again, false. There is no universal tax law that we are all subject to.

That's the fun part: virtually all OECD tax laws are universal.

>The Common Reporting Standard is intended to combat tax evasion. A person who does not have tax residency is not engaging in tax evasion, they are just a person without tax residency.

That's sovereign citizen tier of delusional. Plus I proved again and again that tax residence isn't bound to only where you are/live, at all, for over a decade, for any developed country and most developing ones.

>Rather than speak in theory and hypotheticals, can you point to any real world examples of someone being charged / tried / accused of tax evasion because they didn't have tax residency?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67472496

She played the "I didn't stay anywhere for too long lol" card because she was touring most of the time, and she was slammed by the Spanish fisc on the basis of her centre of vital interests.

Literally most rock/pop stars would be living tax free if what you said was true, unfortunately for them it's not the case.

You won't find many high profile cases because the people who make money use expensive tax advisors who tell them not to do what you suggest, but since you're familiar with Germany, here's another: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/oct/25/germany.tennis

> Why are you framing it as a loophole? Not having tax residency isn't a loophole, just as not having a car isn't a loophole for a drivers license.

Not having a tax residency prevents you from legally doing business pretty much anywhere where it's worth doing business. I have to ask for a work visa in some countries I visit because of work even if there's a tourist visa-free regime for me, I literally am not allowed to do any work there. Would they notice? Probably not. But what happens if they do? That I and most importantly my company are in deep shit.

Re: How to defer US taxes

#176
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only pay cap gains if you realize gains, so you would only face a huge tax bill if you had a pile of cash dumped on you. E.g if you inherit a $1M house and sell it, and the IRS thinks you own 20% taxes on $900,000 of gains, then you have $1M of cash on hand to pay $180K in taxes. (Also, if you live in the house for 2 years and then sell it, you can exclude $250K-$500K in gains, but that has nothing to do with inh…

It would depend... elsewhere on thread, someone says Canada treats death as disposition, and capital gains tax is due for a transfer on death. Family farms are the sympathetic example of choice. Let's say your parent's family farm, that they started from nothing in the 1950s is now worth $20M. If you have to sell it to pay the taxes, because the estate doesn't have $4M to pay capital gains tax, plus $2M for estate ta…

Its not like there can't be exceptions or carveouts. Its disastrous to treat that as representative of every dynastic transfer of accumulated wealth

Re: How to defer US taxes

#177
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but why is the Canadian approach more fair than the US approach?

In the Canadian approach, as I understand it, all capital gains taxes are assessed upon disposition; including disposition at death. In the US approach, capital gains disposed at death avoid capital gains taxes. Here are two similar scenarios where the difference in actions is small, but the difference in net estate distributed to heirs is large. Both scenarios: Parent P buys (split adjusted) 100,000 shares AMZN on J…

Have you considered these factors when considering fairness..?

  1) Many estates contain illiquid assets- family farms, small businesses, etc. Forcing a deemed disposition at death can force heirs to sell just to pay the tax bill

  2) Death isn't a voluntary transaction, and cannot be forecast well, so we are essentially creating an arbitrary tax event/hardship

  3) Determining original cost basis across decades of an ancestor's holdings can create an enormous administrative burden for heirs

  4) Bunching all accumulated gains in a single year at death will push the estate into an artificially high marginal tax bracket

  5) Taxing gains at death discourages long-term wealth building and pushes people toward consumption instead of investment

Re: How to defer US taxes

#178
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government looks at your transactions as designed to produce that outcome and claws back the money from your children.

Your heirs owe neither your debts nor your taxes

Transactions designed to fraudulently hide assets can be reversed. Otherwise you could gift all your assets to your brother then declare bankruptcy.

Re: How to defer US taxes

#179
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Canadian approach, as I understand it, all capital gains taxes are assessed upon disposition; including disposition at death. In the US approach, capital gains disposed at death avoid capital gains taxes. Here are two similar scenarios where the difference in actions is small, but the difference in net estate distributed to heirs is large. Both scenarios: Parent P buys (split adjusted) 100,000 shares AMZN on J…

Have you considered these factors when considering fairness..? 1) Many estates contain illiquid assets- family farms, small businesses, etc. Forcing a deemed disposition at death can force heirs to sell just to pay the tax bill 2) Death isn't a voluntary transaction, and cannot be forecast well, so we are essentially creating an arbitrary tax event/hardship 3) Determining original cost basis across decades of an ance…

IMHO, these are reasonable things to consider, and I acknowledge the hardships. However, my opinion is that similar circumstances leading the similar outcomes is the most fair, and wiping out unrealized capital gains at death can easily result in similar circumstances having unsimilar outcomes.

Specific suggestions or responses to your list:

1) Reasonable alternatives to assessing capital gains tax, due immediately exist. The cost basis could be transfered, as in a gift while living (point 3 applies however); or the tax could be assessed and recorded as a lien on the property, possibly with payment over several years.

2) Death isn't generally voluntary or scheduled or easy to predict a specific date. However, it is easy to forecast that everyone alive today will die at some point. No specific advice other than planning for your estate is something people should probably do once a decade or so.

3) I agree. Especially with assets like homes where cost basis isn't simply the purchase price but also includes improvements. At least for stocks and mutual funds, record keeping requirements for brokerages changed so they have to keep cost basis information in most cases, which helps a lot; but doesn't help for real estate or other capital assets. This is a hard one, and I recognize the value that a step up in basis provides, but I still find it unfair.

4) Yes. It would be nice if there was a way to spread capital gains over many years; not just for the deceased. Perhaps a carryback or carryforward. Or an enhanced 0% capital gains bracket for the deceased or for property disposed upon death; possibly with a carryback to help those who sold capital assets to pay for multi-year end-of-life care and etc.

5) Certainly, avoiding capital gains tax by dieing with unrealized capital gains is an incentive to not sell capital investments. I don't know that it encourages wealth building. Incentivising people to not sell things with unrealized capital gains at end of life causes problems for people too: waiting to sell someone's house, even though they moved into a care home and will never move back distorts the housing market; many people refuse to spend their savings, even when adequate, and instead rely on financial help from relatives or suffer hardships from lack of spending.

Re: How to defer US taxes

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This year, the first $15,000,000 of an estate is exempt from federal taxes, so unless it is on top of a different $14,000,001 in estate net assets, the estate tax (a tax on the estate) on that $1,000,000 house is $0. [0] Some U.S. states have an additional inheritance tax (payable by the inheritors). Those rules vary. [1] [0] https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe... [1] https://www.investopedia…

This fact has me foaming at the mouth rn.

Why? Inheritance taxes are kinda stupid anyway, you already taxed it when it went to the parents, taxing again when moving those assets to next of kin is double dipping.

I can understand step up being considered unfair but the alternative is someone inheriting their family's stuff and getting slapped with a potentially huge tax bill they don't have the cash to afford.

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