The emergence of print-on-demand Amazon paperback books • Hacker News Board

Re: The emergence of print-on-demand Amazon paperback books

#171

Post by aerhardt » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 7:25 PM UTC

AlotOfReading wrote: post #76

I agree with the broad point of the article, but the author misidentifies what's going on. The author's problems are coming from digital printing, not the print-on-demand business model specifically and Amazon isn't the only company doing it. The older books were printed using a process called offset printing. It needs large economies of scale to be financially viable, but it produces higher quality books. The newer…

Author here, thanks for the comments. Let me address a few points in turn:

> The fact that the quality is merely "subpar"

Like I say in a comment somewhere in the thread, a friend who owns a real Martin Eden from Penguin and saw mine said the typesetting was giving her a headache. I'll only know when I read it, but it certainly looks like crap.

> The author's problems are coming from digital printing, not the print-on-demand business model specifically

Many commenters seem to be fixating on this, but I don't think it fairly represents the thrust of the article, and I don't really have anything against POD as such. I don't think that books should conform to a certain abstract ideal of purity. My complaint is about their concrete quality. And as long as Amazon prints at this level of quality, I'd like to be informed before buying.

> Separately, paper quality has gone down industry-wide

I've noticed this in Penguin Classics, although many Spanish publishing houses are infinitely better. At any rate, most of the Amazon PODs are not even close to a modern Penguin.

Re: The emergence of print-on-demand Amazon paperback books

#172

Post by hhhAndrew » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 8:19 PM UTC

squidbeak wrote: post #163

julianeon wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I don't understand: Why don't you buy used books? Plenty of supply for a book like the one he mentions, Knut Hamsun's "Growth of the Soil." No question that it was made to the quality level of the time when it was published; early 2000's is probably peak. I understand some books are so new they won't have any used copies. But for everything else, there's an endless buffet to choose from.

> Something I don't understand: Why don't you buy used books? To me this is like asking what's wrong with buying used underwear. You don't know anything about the paws that have thumbed those pages. I had a flatmate in my early twenties who would kick off every reading session by scratching his bottom - and then as he read, he'd sniff his fingertips as a focus aid. I am not kidding. But even if the previous owners ha…

OK I love used books but this diatribe is a thing of beauty.

Re: The emergence of print-on-demand Amazon paperback books

#173

Post by aanet » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 10:03 PM UTC

This post resonates with me. As a book-lover and collector, I prefer my books to be of high quality, long lasting, and beautiful to hold and look at. If I'm spending $ or $$$ on books, I want to get a good reading experience, and that often starts with both the quality of paper as well as the print.

Like the OP himself (hi Alex), I'm also frustrated with the quality of books (many of which are print-on-demand) from Amazon.

Case in point: Algorithms Illuminated by Tim Roughgarden (https://algorithmsilluminated.org/). Great set of books, but poor quality, sadly. All printed on demand.

Ditto with Sebastian Raschka's (early) books from Packt Publishing (Python Machine Learning). Great content, but poor printing (very low contrast, etc).

This is not a debate on ebooks vs paper books, or PDF vs something else. It's about quality of printed books.

I paid $$$ for Kevin Murphy's _Probabilistic Machine Learning_ from MIT Press. Excellent quality paper, great printing. It's a keeper. I'll be reading it years from today. Just as I read (and have) books from decades ago. I might pass 'em on to somebody well deserving, not junking them to recycle.

Like OP, I want my books and my library to be long lasting. It's a joy. And I'm happy to pay a higher price if needed.

Re: The emergence of print-on-demand Amazon paperback books

#174

Post by aanet » Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 10:05 PM UTC

aanet wrote: post #173

This post resonates with me. As a book-lover and collector, I prefer my books to be of high quality, long lasting, and beautiful to hold and look at. If I'm spending $ or $$$ on books, I want to get a good reading experience, and that often starts with both the quality of paper as well as the print. Like the OP himself (hi Alex), I'm also frustrated with the quality of books (many of which are print-on-demand) from A…

Ah, of course, now Tim Roughgarden's books are available via offset printing.

(My copies from a few years ago are print-on-demand, the poorer quality... hence the venting :-/ )

Re: The emergence of print-on-demand Amazon paperback books

#175

Post by dwd » Tue, Mar 17, 2026, 12:32 AM UTC

squidbeak wrote: post #163

julianeon wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I don't understand: Why don't you buy used books? Plenty of supply for a book like the one he mentions, Knut Hamsun's "Growth of the Soil." No question that it was made to the quality level of the time when it was published; early 2000's is probably peak. I understand some books are so new they won't have any used copies. But for everything else, there's an endless buffet to choose from.

> Something I don't understand: Why don't you buy used books? To me this is like asking what's wrong with buying used underwear. You don't know anything about the paws that have thumbed those pages. I had a flatmate in my early twenties who would kick off every reading session by scratching his bottom - and then as he read, he'd sniff his fingertips as a focus aid. I am not kidding. But even if the previous owners ha…

Geez, I have issues with bent bindings and people who lick their fingers to turn pages, but you take it to a whole other level of grossness. You did forgot the common practice of reading on the toilet.

Re: The emergence of print-on-demand Amazon paperback books

#176

Post by simulator5g » Tue, Mar 17, 2026, 5:12 AM UTC

gucci-on-fleek wrote: post #104

AlotOfReading wrote: post #76

I agree with the broad point of the article, but the author misidentifies what's going on. The author's problems are coming from digital printing, not the print-on-demand business model specifically and Amazon isn't the only company doing it. The older books were printed using a process called offset printing. It needs large economies of scale to be financially viable, but it produces higher quality books. The newer…

> The older books were printed using a process called offset printing. [...] it produces higher quality books. The newer books are printed with digital printing, which is just a fancy version of the laser (typical) or inkjet printer you have at home. [...] The result is a worse quality book Offset printing doesn't necessarily give better results than an inkjet/laser printer. My cheap laser printer from Costco produce…

I don't believe that even a high end home/office printer can produce better quality prints than the best offset lithography practices.

One reason that offset lithography has better quality is because of the ink, which can be mixed for a specific print job (called spot colors). Regular CMYK printing cannot achieve the color space that spot colors can.

Another reason is that typical offset lithography processes produce images with 2400 DPI, and it can go even higher than that. The highest DPI I've seen on a inkjet printer was 1200.

Digital printers, as in the fancy inkjets used to print at scale, can also use spot colors and I wouldn't be surprised if they could do more than 2400 DPI. They are giant machines that cost millions of dollars.

Re: The emergence of print-on-demand Amazon paperback books

#177

Post by ewoodrich » Tue, Mar 17, 2026, 5:31 AM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #67

mingus88 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bookshop.org will also pair with local book stores and share some profits. Win-win It’s ironic that in the 90s, we were warning about large retailers like Barnes and Noble pushing out smaller shops. Now we’re nostalgic for that experience also. Amazon has truly ruined many things. We traded so much for the cheap convenience of fast shipping and a few dollars off.

> We traded so much for the cheap convenience of fast shipping and a few dollars off. There's more to it than that. The fast shipping and a few dollars off was a good deal. But modern Amazon no longer offers fast shipping or a few dollars off. And, separately, they've stopped being willing to provide an amount of packaging that prevents your items from being damaged in transit. They're betting that having provided a…

  > modern Amazon no longer offers fast shipping

This is highly location specific, in the last 3 years at my current apartment my orders are received roughly 40% same day, 40% next day, 20% 2+ days shipping. And I've never had a return rejected (and I do a lot of returns) so damage in shipping is a minor inconvenience.

My main gripes are related to search being borderline unusable as it becomes more ad-dominated by the day, and overall trend of other Prime benefits becoming worthless, but not shipping speed or returns.

Re: The emergence of print-on-demand Amazon paperback books

#178

Post by gucci-on-fleek » Tue, Mar 17, 2026, 6:20 AM UTC

simulator5g wrote: post #176

gucci-on-fleek wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The older books were printed using a process called offset printing. [...] it produces higher quality books. The newer books are printed with digital printing, which is just a fancy version of the laser (typical) or inkjet printer you have at home. [...] The result is a worse quality book Offset printing doesn't necessarily give better results than an inkjet/laser printer. My cheap laser printer from Costco produce…

I don't believe that even a high end home/office printer can produce better quality prints than the best offset lithography practices. One reason that offset lithography has better quality is because of the ink, which can be mixed for a specific print job (called spot colors). Regular CMYK printing cannot achieve the color space that spot colors can. Another reason is that typical offset lithography processes produce…

> I don't believe that even a high end home/office printer can produce better quality prints than the best offset lithography practices.

Sure, but not many products are printed using the best offset lithography practices, most are just using whatever's cheapest.

> One reason that offset lithography has better quality is because of the ink, which can be mixed for a specific print job (called spot colors). Regular CMYK printing cannot achieve the color space that spot colors can.

Yeah, spot colours are pretty cool, but my impression was that they tended to be used in things like packaging or books with hundreds of thousands of copies printed, not things that you could conceivably replace with with POD. Or am I mistaken here and spot colours are more widely used than I thought?

> Another reason is that typical offset lithography processes produce images with 2400 DPI, and it can go even higher than that.

Wouldn't that only be useful for greyscale though? I doubt that you could get good enough registration for 2400 DPI to be useful with multiple plates. Or is registration precise enough these days?

> The highest DPI I've seen on a inkjet printer was 1200.

These printers claim to be able to print at 2400 DPI [0] [1], but I'm pretty skeptical that the quality would actually be that good.

[0]: https://www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/pixma-ip8720#tech-spec-data

[1]: https://www.brother-usa.com/products/hll9410cdn#Print

Re: The emergence of print-on-demand Amazon paperback books

#179

Post by thaumasiotes » Tue, Mar 17, 2026, 6:47 AM UTC

ewoodrich wrote: post #177

thaumasiotes wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We traded so much for the cheap convenience of fast shipping and a few dollars off. There's more to it than that. The fast shipping and a few dollars off was a good deal. But modern Amazon no longer offers fast shipping or a few dollars off. And, separately, they've stopped being willing to provide an amount of packaging that prevents your items from being damaged in transit. They're betting that having provided a…

> modern Amazon no longer offers fast shipping This is highly location specific, in the last 3 years at my current apartment my orders are received roughly 40% same day, 40% next day, 20% 2+ days shipping. And I've never had a return rejected (and I do a lot of returns) so damage in shipping is a minor inconvenience. My main gripes are related to search being borderline unusable as it becomes more ad-dominated by the…

> And I've never had a return rejected (and I do a lot of returns) so damage in shipping is a minor inconvenience.

What? Every item arrives damaged. You can file several returns in a row, sure, but since you can't receive an undamaged item, this is not a "minor inconvenience". How does it help you to return the third damaged item and receive a fourth one?

Re: The emergence of print-on-demand Amazon paperback books

#180

Post by tietjens » Tue, Mar 17, 2026, 7:41 AM UTC

This also happens to me living in EU and purchasing EN language titles. I am not 100% certain but I believe this happens because export editions (editions sold outside of the licensing territory) are now printed on demand by Amazon.

The author seems very distressed by this but it's a simple problem to fix: order your books from a bookstore. You'll be surprised what they are able to order.