Earlier quoted context omitted.
He's trying to prevent poor people from voting. Requiring poor people to pay a hefty fee, which they probably don't have, to get a passport seems a fairly competent way to go about making sure poor people don't vote to me. If I don't want poor people voting, then attaching a fee to voting doesn't mean I'm incompetent. It means I'm smart enough to know poor people don't have money. By the way, I think all of this is h…
I hate that we get so caught up on applying labels to the disenfranchisement, rather than completely and forcefully rejecting any attempts to disenfranchise any voter. In a functioning democracy, voting is sacred. It must be treated as THEE core, fundamental right of every person under its care. To violate this sacred tenet should be immediate grounds for exile. If you can't respect the ONE CORE tenet, or are incapab…
Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure
171–180 of 501 posts
Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pretty much every bill that has ever been put forward for needing an ID to vote has had a provision for free IDs. That’s not where things get caught up. Also, it’s a pretty silly thing anyways. I don’t even drink and I still need my driver’s license quite a few times every year.
> Pretty much every bill that has ever been put forward for needing an ID to vote has had a provision for free IDs. Do you have a source for this because I have seen very few laws like this and runs counter to the overt intention of these laws
Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's life. Figure it out. It's really an insult to a group of people to imply that they aren't capable of being a functioning adult in society.
Making things more difficult means fewer people will do it. It's foolish to insist that it's all or nothing. It's not about being capable, it's about marginal effects in large groups of people.
If they can't put up some minimal effort, what was their vote worth? I don't think the laziest folks probably vote in good policy.
Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure
#174Stories like this probably scare some people off from electronic voting but I don't think this is that big of a deal. When we finish voting operations in my area we load the ballots up on someone's personal vehicle and they take them down, securely, to where they need to go. That vehicle could get blown up and those ballots could be gone, though I think we could still get a record of the results. That being said for…
But there seems to be either no political will, or some issues with the practical implementations. There were some municipal experiments here and there, and then just… crickets. Anyone knows what happened to those efforts?
Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure
#175Stories like this probably scare some people off from electronic voting but I don't think this is that big of a deal. When we finish voting operations in my area we load the ballots up on someone's personal vehicle and they take them down, securely, to where they need to go. That vehicle could get blown up and those ballots could be gone, though I think we could still get a record of the results. That being said for…
The only thing voter ID prevents is voter impersonation. It prevents you from finding someone else's name and polling place, going there, pretending to be that person, and submitting a vote on their behalf. But that threat doesn't really scale. Even if you assume no one at the polling places notice you coming to vote over and over under different names, a single person could probably only do this a few dozen times on election day. To scale that you would need more people; and every person you add to the scheme increases the odds of someone slipping up or getting caught. But the real issue is if any of the people you are impersonating try to vote! While election officials don't record what people voted for, they do record who voted, and the ballot counting process will automatically note that people voted multiple times. So you would have to figure out some way to gather a database of a large number of people you know aren't going to vote, and get a bunch of people to turn up at a bunch of polling places under those names. It's just not practical to do, when elections are decided by thousands or tens of thousands of votes.
> how difficult it supposedly is to have an ID (which is weird when you look at how other countries run elections)
The devil is in the details. I don't trust that the groups drafting Voter ID legislation are doing so in good faith. For example, North Dakota passed a voter ID law years ago. It stated that you needed a valid state-issued ID that included a street address. Sounds fine, right? The problem is that most homes on Native American reservations don't actually have street addresses. Tribal members use P.O. boxes for mail, and that P.O. box is on their driver's licenses. This was brought up when the law was proposed, but it passed anyway. The Spirit Lake Nation and the Standing Rock Sioux tribes had to sue in federal court. They were eventually successful, but it took years, and in the meantime the 2018 midterms were held with many Native Americans literally unable to vote.
See https://www.npr.org/2020/02/14/806083852/north-dakota-and-na...
Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
The ballot voting process is also misunderstood by regular citizens, even nerdy ones. From experience, even by voting officials.
As a Swiss citizen I strongly disagree. Most people capable of reading and basic maths (addition!) can understand the counting of our paper ballots. My kids understand how this works since they are like 5. Any citizen can go and check how votes are counted in their Geminde. Any citizen can check what is reported in the federal tally. I did several times. It's not rocket science.
Technically you don't even need that, you just need to be able to count, i.e. find the successor to a given number.
Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
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Sure. And the weak evidence still isn't powerful, because so much effort had to be expended to gain it. If cheating were widespread it would have been detected much more easily. Instead, efforts to clean up the voter rolls never cause people to get caught. But they do cause many legitimate voters to lose the ability to vote.
Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
> but also have places where getting to a government office to get such an ID is difficult or expensive Where in the US do you find it's difficult for people to get an ID? Where is it not? What percentage of the population has an ID in a place where it's difficult to get one vs somewhere it is easier? What constitutes an ID being expensive? Nearly every country in the world requires proof of citizenship to vote. How…
Until 1986[1] most Americans didn't get a Social Security Number until their first job. In The Matrix (1999) there's a scene where Agent Smith explicitly remarks that Neo has an SSN as proof he's a law-abiding citizen in a white-collar job. [1] when it was made a requirement to claim tax deductions for dependent children. Even today, if you don't want the tax break, you can opt out at the cost of ruining your child's…
Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yep. And in fact there's been a ton of resistance for 20 years to rolling out an alternate form of driver's license which does act as proof of citizenship. See the REAL ID, which even now is only kinda a requirement to fly domestically.
Real ID only confirms one was lawfully present in the United States when the ID was issued, it is not intended to prove citizenship. https://www.dhs.gov/archive/real-id-public-faqs For example, DACA recipients, temporary protected status refugees, and citizens of states in free association with the USA (Micronesia/Marshall Islands/Palau) that are in the USA are all eligible for Real ID.
Re: Swiss e-voting pilot can't count 2,048 ballots after decryption failure
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is not even about understanding. It is about how easy it is to distrust it. Contrary to what nerds think, the goal of elections isn't to get bulletproof results by mathematical standards. The goal is to create agreeable consent among those who voted. A good election system is one where even sworn enemies can begrudgingly agree on the result. A paper ballot system has the advantage that it can be monitored by any g…
How about a machine voting system with paper fallback. You as a voter can review the paper protocol from your vote. If there is distrust, the justice system can review the paper trail as well.
There is always, so you would just always count the ballots.