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Terence Tao, at 8 years old (1984) [pdf]

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Re: Terence Tao, at 8 years old (1984) [pdf]

#171

Post by vlovich123 »

fifilura wrote: post #150
boppo1 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please elaborate

We pressure our kids into grit, but genius comes from the inside. Be grateful when it happens, but be happy if it does not.

Laszlo Polgar would disagree [1]. He contends that raising a genius is something you can actually target intentionally (whether or not you should). His proof being 3 daughters who became GMs and one that was a generational talent. As far as audibles go, that’s quite a flex. Yes, the daughters are not all equally talented and chess isn’t quite the same as math, but we’re talking about gradiation within an achievement only reached by much less than 1% of all active players. To me that’s genius level. Also, it’s not necessarily an accident that the youngest is the one to have attained the best result. Evidence is quite clear that older siblings can help their younger ones achieve more faster because the younger ones see it as a path to follow/if they can I can.

[1] https://slatestarcodex.com/Stuff/genius.pdf

Re: Terence Tao, at 8 years old (1984) [pdf]

#172

Post by zelphirkalt »

hnfong wrote: post #137
SJC_Hacker wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't find the reference but from an interview with his parents there apparently there wasn't much "nurturing" other than simply making available the necessary materials which he gobbled up. Its not like they put a made him practice for an hour a day. A boy in my high school class made IMO and got a gold medal (and later on won the Putnam one year). They interviewed his parents and it was a similar story.

Agreed. It's been decades, but personally being acquaintances with IMO and IOI gold medalists made me rethink a lot of things. With our society being ostensibly meritocratic regarding intelligence, people generally don't like to listen to stories that suggest that nurture and hard work aren't as important as they presume.

I don't think our society is even remotely meritocratic regarding intelligence. Maybe it is meritocratic regarding psychopathy.

We merely have a few pockets, where the very brightest are rewarded. However going from average intelligence up to those pockets, there is a ton of people, who are clearly more intelligent than most others. Much more intelligent than the typical lie-your-way-through-life people, who haven't shown any significant skill, yet are elected by the masses.

OK, this is making it political, but it's true in many countries, if not most. The truly very intelligent people rather focus on their area of expertise, where not many other humans are able to understand what they are doing or able to achieve a similar result. Similar thing happens in businesses. Talkers rise in the hierarchies, doers who don't self-promote massively remain low in the hierarchies, in most businesses. I don't see many scientists becoming millionaires for advancing humanity. We don't recognize great skills and smart people collectively in many cases. We chase silly trends and make-believe.

I could see "meritocratic regarding intelligence" somewhat in the way that smart kids don't have many problems at school usually, and then later at university, and then can maybe get a well paid job. But that's where the meritocratic system ends. In the job world it's mostly about other things. Like how well people fake being social with their higher-ups. Or how they have less worries about lying about their abilities. Or how they promote first and foremost themselves, rather than everyone, who significantly contributed to some achievement.

Re: Terence Tao, at 8 years old (1984) [pdf]

#173

Post by simonh »

lordnacho wrote: post #54
stevage wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning three languages at an early age is completely unremarkable for millions of people around the world. It's just notable which ones his were.

It's notable if he learned Greek and Latin from books. Being classical languages, it sounds that way. Most people who learn three languages as a kid are surrounded by other speakers, not books.

His father who oversaw his education and possibly both parents, and Bentham that played a role in his education as well, would have known either Greek, or Latin or both as they were considered essential to a rounded education at the time.

Re: Terence Tao, at 8 years old (1984) [pdf]

#174

Post by sfn42 »

hgomersall wrote: post #92
Darkstryder wrote: post #35

As a father of an 8 years old, this is very moving. While Terence is -without a doubt- born with prodigious abilities, I think credit should also be given to his parents Billy and Grace who seem to have managed to simultaneously nurture these special abilities while still letting Terence have a happy (?) childhood. This is not easy to do.

In my house we discuss a macro feature of children as being "school-shaped". If Terence Tao wasn't school-shaped, would he have been as successful? The counter-point to that is to ponder how many children fail to achieve a similar level of success because they don't fit into the school system so are left by the wayside.

Where I grew up there wasn't any way to deal with those of us who did better. If you did worse there were all sorts of programs, they would move you to a separate small class so you could get extra help and stuff like that.

My problem was everything was too easy. I was bored. I would get reprimanded for not working because they gave us an hour worth of work, I finished it in 10 minutes and then did other stuff. I basically didn't have to study for anything, I just showed up and got Bs. If I put in 10% effort I got As. And all I ever got for it was yelled at for having done everything they asked me to do too fast.

So I started sitting in the back of the classroom minding my own business and trying not to be noticed. I'm convinced my life would have been very different if I hadn't been completely jaded from most of my teachers basically punishing me for being better than the rest. By my mid teens I didn't give a shit, I was happy coasting along doing better than the rest just by showing up.

My choices were my own and I'm doing pretty well now. Got my shit together in my late 20s and got a CS degree. Best decision I ever made. But I can't help but think I could have ended up on a path like this much earlier if my teachers actually supported me rather than treating me like a problem.

Re: Terence Tao, at 8 years old (1984) [pdf]

#175

Post by thiago_fm »

He was a prodigy, but I believe the average American would be surprised that almost all classes in China have a person like him, or even more. Raw IQ, analytical and rational minds are common there.

His biggest talent though, I believe it's something more rare. He can get people excited about mathematics, make people dream and imagine.

Re: Terence Tao, at 8 years old (1984) [pdf]

#176

Post by bonsai_spool »

sfn42 wrote: post #174
hgomersall wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my house we discuss a macro feature of children as being "school-shaped". If Terence Tao wasn't school-shaped, would he have been as successful? The counter-point to that is to ponder how many children fail to achieve a similar level of success because they don't fit into the school system so are left by the wayside.

Where I grew up there wasn't any way to deal with those of us who did better. If you did worse there were all sorts of programs, they would move you to a separate small class so you could get extra help and stuff like that. My problem was everything was too easy. I was bored. I would get reprimanded for not working because they gave us an hour worth of work, I finished it in 10 minutes and then did other stuff. I bas…

> But I can't help but think I could have ended up on a path like this much earlier if my teachers actually supported me rather than treating me like a problem.

It's interesting you raise your teachers / organized schooling when Tao's parents were cited earlier in the thread for providing him materials.

Where do you see mothers and fathers stepping in (or not!) with children of greater ability?

Re: Terence Tao, at 8 years old (1984) [pdf]

#177

Post by the_arun »

I watched a video of Terrance Tao - https://youtu.be/ukpCHo5v-Gc?si=7MqSwDanZycSEVmm & noticed he speaks fast and assumed he must be high functioning.

Then realized, I mistook him for his Autistic brother Trevor. Trevor too is a mathematician.

Like others called out their parents must be great too. It is not easy.

Re: Terence Tao, at 8 years old (1984) [pdf]

#178

Post by sfn42 »

bonsai_spool wrote: post #176
sfn42 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I grew up there wasn't any way to deal with those of us who did better. If you did worse there were all sorts of programs, they would move you to a separate small class so you could get extra help and stuff like that. My problem was everything was too easy. I was bored. I would get reprimanded for not working because they gave us an hour worth of work, I finished it in 10 minutes and then did other stuff. I bas…

> But I can't help but think I could have ended up on a path like this much earlier if my teachers actually supported me rather than treating me like a problem. It's interesting you raise your teachers / organized schooling when Tao's parents were cited earlier in the thread for providing him materials. Where do you see mothers and fathers stepping in (or not!) with children of greater ability?

My parents did provide me with materials. They were happy to buy me books and stuff.

But school is where I spent most my time and did most of my learning. My single father had enough to deal with, working full time alongside being a farmer. He isn't exactly an academic. He did what he could. The school system failed me massively. Both in not supporting nor encouraging my exceptional performance, and in ignoring my bullies even when they walked in on it and when I told them about it.

Re: Terence Tao, at 8 years old (1984) [pdf]

#179

Post by lordnacho »

keiferski wrote: post #108

I just read this yesterday in Conversations with Walter Murch, a well-known film editor. Not exactly the same, but I do get the sense that Tao still feels the same way about math: As I've gone through life, I've found that your chances for happiness are increased if you wind up doing something that is a reflection of what you loved most when you were somewhere between nine and eleven years old. Interviewer: Yes—somet…

I wonder if you could test this. Maybe someone has a longitudinal study where they check what people thought they liked to do as kids against what they do as adults.
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