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Breaking the spell of vibe coding

fast.ai

171–180 of 375 posts

Re: Breaking the spell of vibe coding

#171
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very interesting to me how many people presume that if you don't learn how to vibecode now you'll never ever be able to catch up. If the models are constantly getting better, won't these tools be easier to use a year from now? Will model improvements not obviate all the byzantine prompting strategies we have to use today?

I think the AI-coding skill that is likely to remain useful is the ability (and discipline) to review and genuinely understand the code produced by the AI before committing it. I don't have that skill; I find that if I'm using AI, I'm strongly drawn toward the lazy approach. At the moment, the only way for me to actually understand the code I'm producing is to write it all myself. (That puts my brain into an active c…

> I think the AI-coding skill that is likely to remain useful is the ability (and discipline) to review and genuinely understand the code produced by the AI before committing it.

> I don't have that skill; I find that if I'm using AI, I'm strongly drawn toward the lazy approach. At the moment, the only way for me to actually understand the code I'm producing is to write it all myself. (That puts my brain into an active coding/puzzle solving state, rather than a passive energy-saving state.)

When I review code, I try to genuinely understand it, but it's a huge mental drain. It's just a slog, and I'm tired at the end. Very little flow state.

Writing code can get me into a flow state.

That's why I pretty much only use LLMs to vibecode one-off scripts and do code reviews (after my own manual review, to see if it can catch something I missed). Anything more would be too exhausting.

Re: Breaking the spell of vibe coding

#172
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> knowing how to use ai coding assistants productively is a skill like any other No, it's different from other skills in several ways. For one, the difficulty of this skill is largely overstated. All it requires is basic natural language reading and writing, the ability to organize work and issue clear instructions, and some relatively simple technical knowledge about managing context effectively, knowing which tool…

> In the meantime, your own skills will continue to atrophy the more you rely on this tech, instead of on your own intellect You’re right. I’m going back to writing assembly. These compilers have totally atrophied my ability to write machine code!

Good on you! Writing assembly is a good way to understand how computers work, which can help you further up the stack.

Re: Breaking the spell of vibe coding

#173

The #1 predictor of success here is being able to define what success looks like in an obnoxiously detailed manner. If you have a strong vision about the desired UI/UX and you constantly push for that outcome, it is very unlikely you will have a bad time with the current models. The workflow that seems more perilous is the one where the developer fires up gas town with a vague prompt like "here's my crypto wallet ple…

[deleted]

Re: Breaking the spell of vibe coding

#174
post #32

> A study from METR found that when developers used AI tools, they estimated that they were working 20% faster, yet in reality they worked 19% slower. That is nearly a 40% difference between perceived and actual times! It’s not. It’s either 33% slower than perceived or perception overestimates speed by 50%. I don’t know how to trust the author if stuff like this is wrong.

Isn't the study a year old by now? Things have evolved very quickly in the last few months.

The exact numbers certainly would be different today, but you would probably still see the effect that there’s an overestimation of productivity

Re: Breaking the spell of vibe coding

#175
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the meantime, your own skills will continue to atrophy the more you rely on this tech, instead of on your own intellect You’re right. I’m going back to writing assembly. These compilers have totally atrophied my ability to write machine code!

Good on you! Writing assembly is a good way to understand how computers work, which can help you further up the stack.

Assembly will not help you further up the stack which is working with agents, not writing code (obsolete skill). Apparently my /s was needed

Re: Breaking the spell of vibe coding

#176
post #7

I think it all boils down to, which is higher risk, using AI too much, or using AI too little? Right now I see the former as being hugely risky. Hallucinated bugs, coaxed into dead-end architectures, security concerns, not being familiar with the code when a bug shows up in production, less sense of ownership, less hands-on learning, etc. This is true both at the personal level and at the business level. (And astound…

It definitely comes up if you're just reviewing an already-"completed" PR. Even if you're not going to ship AI-generated code to prod (and I think that's a reasonable choice), it's often informative to give a high-level description of what you want to accomplish to a coding agent and see what it does in your codebase. You might find that the AI covered a particular edge case that you would have missed. You might find that even if the PR as a whole is slop.

Re: Breaking the spell of vibe coding

#177
Agent assisted coding is just vibe-coding in disguise. You still only glance over the code "just so it won't be considered vibe-coding", but at the end of the day, if you invest a proper amount of time reading and reasoning with the generated code - than it would take the exact same time, as if you would have wrote it by hand.

By not going through this process, you loose intent, familiarity, and opinions.

It's the exact same as vibe-coding.

Re: Breaking the spell of vibe coding

#178

Articles like this amount to a straw man. People seem to think that just because it produces a bunch of code you therefore don’t need to read it or be responsible for the output. Sure you can do that, but then you are also justifying throwing away all the process and thinking that has gone into productive and safe software engineering over the last 50 years. Have tests, do code reviews, get better at spec’ing so the…

Thats exactly the thing what the term vibecoding describes.

Re: Breaking the spell of vibe coding

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hilarious. The whole point of "vibe coding" is that you don't need to learn or know anything. It's like saying if you don't learn to use a smartphone you'll be left behind. Even babies can use it now.

That's another dumb thing that unfortunately some people can be led to believe. There have been parents who genuinely thought that screen time would make their kids digitally savvy and prepared for the future.

Leave them with an old Toshiba and an Ubuntu cd. Good luck kid.

Re: Breaking the spell of vibe coding

#180

The #1 predictor of success here is being able to define what success looks like in an obnoxiously detailed manner. If you have a strong vision about the desired UI/UX and you constantly push for that outcome, it is very unlikely you will have a bad time with the current models. The workflow that seems more perilous is the one where the developer fires up gas town with a vague prompt like "here's my crypto wallet ple…

That's how I'm using it :)

I have like 15 personalized apps now, mostly chrome extensions

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