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US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

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Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#171

Post by [deleted] »

curun1r wrote: post #114
SunshineTheCat wrote: post #13

Everyone has been getting sold that these tariffs are on "China" or fill-in-the-blank on what country we're "getting" with them. The reality is that's a fundamental misunderstanding of what a tariff is. There is a reason you will find tariffs drop off after the great depression. They make everything more expensive for businesses and in turn, the end consumer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tariffs_in_the_Un…

What’s obnoxious about them isn’t tariffs conceptually, it’s the implementation. There’s an argument that some sort of tariffs are actually necessary. The world is changing and the US has become reliant on countries who increasingly have divergent interests from the US. Additionally, some countries have aging populations that will make them more and more unreliable places to manufacture stuff in the next couple decad…

[deleted]

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#173

Post by bonsai_spool »

ewjt wrote: post #109
culi wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if, instead of all of us paying in order to have a car industry, we take that tax money and pay to an ecological restoration industry or functioning healthcare industry or whatever. Have you seen the map of superfund sites? Statistically speaking, you are almost certainly living within 10 miles of a superfund https://epa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=... There is a LOT of other work we could be…

Transportation is like farming and yielding ownership of critical industries gives foreign adversaries too much leverage. I’m with you though. If humans could just get along we could build an amazing world.

I wonder if the argument turns on Michigan being a helpful state in presidential elections - many other parts of the Midwest have lost their former industry and fallen on hard times.

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#174

Post by hackyhacky »

neilwilson wrote: post #161
hackyhacky wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manufacturing jobs are down. [1] [1] https://www.koco.com/article/manufacturing-jobs-us-tariffs/7...

That doesn’t mean manufacturing is down, if new output is automated. The trade deficit is shrinking, and which necessarily means there is more domestic flow as foreign hoards of dollars are liquidated. That flow has to go somewhere. Could be straight to the tax cuts of course.

> That doesn’t mean manufacturing is down, if new output is automated.

You are correct. Of course, if new output is automated, then the purported goal of the tariffs (more manufacturing jobs!) is defeated.

The fact that any new manufacturing will of course be automated shows how little thought went into designing these tariffs and how transparently false the administration's promises are.

> The trade deficit is shrinking

This is totally irrelevant. The size of the trade deficit does is a red herring.

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#177

Post by hackyhacky »

phkahler wrote: post #159
hackyhacky wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manufacturing jobs are down. [1] [1] https://www.koco.com/article/manufacturing-jobs-us-tariffs/7...

Perhaps because the inputs to domestic manufacturing are currently more expensive. Actually increasing manufacturing capacity first requires construction and capital expenditure. I'm not sure how those metrics are doing.

> domestic manufacturing are currently more expensive

Because factory machines and raw materials are being tariffed. Also because a source of cheap labor (immigrants) is being excised.

> Actually increasing manufacturing capacity first requires construction and capital expenditure.

It certainly does. And companies are rightfully hesitant to invest, because the legally dubious basis for the tariffs may not survive this month, much less into the next administration.

Re: US businesses and consumers pay 90% of tariff costs, New York Fed says

#180

Post by bubbadog77 »

phkahler wrote: post #112
SunshineTheCat wrote: post #13

Everyone has been getting sold that these tariffs are on "China" or fill-in-the-blank on what country we're "getting" with them. The reality is that's a fundamental misunderstanding of what a tariff is. There is a reason you will find tariffs drop off after the great depression. They make everything more expensive for businesses and in turn, the end consumer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_tariffs_in_the_Un…

No. The point is to make foreign goods more expensive in order to bring production back to the US. People who don't realize this point out who is actually paying and claim its a problem. Will this bring manufacturing back? It seems to be working to some extent, but its a risk to manufacturers because the whole thing could get reversed after an election.

Of course, with the on/off again nature of these tariffs, the Supreme Court challenge and the fact that practically every country is being tariffed, uncertainty in the business world is epic right now. This uncertainty makes it difficult for manufacturers to see out 6 months, nevermind years down the road. Besides, it would take years to re-shore most manufacturing operations, some supply chains are very complex and the result of years of tuning and adjustments. This is not an overnight migration, as is being intimated. Frankly, I wonder if this is just a money-grab at the expense of the American consumer.
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