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Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

reuters.com

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Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#171

Post by arexxbifs »

ergocoder wrote: post #153
arexxbifs wrote: post #45

Sweden introduced a similar scheme in 1964, in which artists (broadly defined, having since come to include one clown and one chess player) have been given a basic income, supplementing their other incomes up to a specific level. Artists couldn't apply for this, but were officially selected. The program was stopped in 2010, meaning no new recipients have been selected since. As far as I know, there's been no studies…

I'd bet what happens is that it just funded a bunch of children of upper middle class families. Scholarships and this kind of funds happen elsewhere and are based on merits. They end up funding a bunch of upper middle class's children because it turns out those children are well-equipped to perform higher on merits. If you are too rich, then you wouldn't need this kind of fund. If you are below upper middle class, th…

You're sort of right. This particular grant is extra curious because it's typically been given to already highly accomplished artists. Sweden is a small pond and although there are a few fun outliers in this crowd, most of them make out the upper echelons of the Swedish cultural societé. Some were born straight into it. Others, no doubt, had parents who could put them there and knew someone who knew someone. One, for example, is Swedish nobility and the son of a diplomat. Another was the son of a Swedish secretary of state.

While I'm sure there are some wholly self-made virtuosos on the list, it does give off an air of apparent nepotism.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#173

Post by knowitnone3 »

shimman wrote: post #157
calvinmorrison wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of societies have realized there is value in supporting art and culture. Basically outlandishly rich and gaudy benefactors have always had so much money they could employ OTHERS to do trivial pursuits. Now - the average taxpayer will bear that cost.

I'm sure if you asked the average tax payer they would prefer programs like these rather than corporate welfare nonsense. So yeah, seems alright to me. I'm a tax payer.

[dead]

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#174

Post by miladyincontrol »

appreciatorBus wrote: post #137

Since only people with a wealthy family safety net have the wherewithal to call themselves artists, these schemes just end up as a transfer from poor to rich (kids)

iirc from previous criticism I saw on this a majority of the trial recipients were retirement age adults, but all the same people much wealthier with the privilege to have time/money to spend doing art. Younger artists? Not established enough.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#175

Post by rpdillon »

socalgal2 wrote: post #146
tomcam wrote: post #144

I don’t get it. Why are artists more deserving than unemployed insurance salespeople or carpet installers?

Agreed. Can just all myself an artist to get other people's tax money?

It seems there are 2000 positions and 8000 applicants. The program cost $74M, but more than paid for itself:

> It also recouped more than the trial's net cost of 72 million euros ($86 million) through increases in arts-related expenditure, productivity gains and reduced reliance on other social welfare payments, according to a government-commissioned cost-benefit analysis.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#176

Post by subpixel »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #159
shimman wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure if you asked the average tax payer they would prefer programs like these rather than corporate welfare nonsense. So yeah, seems alright to me. I'm a tax payer.

i purchase a hell of a lot more stuff from Walmart than I do fine art.

It's funny that you put it that way, b/c I have definitely spent more money on art (not even 'fine' art) that I have at Walmart over the years.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#177

Post by ergocoder »

RobotToaster wrote: post #163
ergocoder wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd bet what happens is that it just funded a bunch of children of upper middle class families. Scholarships and this kind of funds happen elsewhere and are based on merits. They end up funding a bunch of upper middle class's children because it turns out those children are well-equipped to perform higher on merits. If you are too rich, then you wouldn't need this kind of fund. If you are below upper middle class, th…

>They end up funding a bunch of upper middle class's children because it turns out those children are well-equipped to perform higher on merits. I'd argue they are well equipped to give the appearance of merit, rather than performing higher on actual merit.

That's not true.

We can easily look at countries like Vietnam and Thailand where the merit is basically exam-based. Extremely difficult to cheat or "give the appearance".

The upper middle class's children perform very well. The top universities are full of these children. They are the top of the country. They are math/computer/science olympiads

If you are too rich, then the children are too spoiled. If you are too poor, then you don't have time and space to study nor access to private tutors.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#178

Post by reeddev42 »

This is fascinating because it implicitly acknowledges that some valuable work does not have a clear market path. Artists create cultural value that is difficult to monetize directly.

The same is true for a lot of open source and indie software. I have been running a free AI companion bot on Telegram for months and the operating cost (5/month server) comes entirely out of pocket. The users get genuine value from it but there is no revenue model that does not compromise the experience. If I add ads or charge money, the thing that makes it feel like talking to a friend (no transactional friction) disappears.

Ireland is essentially saying: some things are worth publicly funding because the market undersupplies them. That is a healthier framing than trying to force everything into a subscription box.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#179

Post by hippich »

csense wrote: post #84

Does the government get equity in the artist's work? If one of the recipients turns out to be the next Picasso, and makes say $1 million selling a painting (either as an NFT or a traditional art auction), does he have to give the $1 million to the government?

State will tax it. And the tax amount from 1M is infinitely bigger than the tax from 0
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