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Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

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Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#171

Post by albert_e »

AWS seems to have seen the writing on the wall and has already launched a European Soverign Cloud -- a separate partition like they have for GovCloud and China.

I am guessing other hyperscalers must be doing the same?

Are we seeing a strong aversion among EU companies to use these offerings from US firms (AWS, Google, Microsoft) and viable competition emerging from Europe?

The selling point of many offerings from current market leaders is that they have the widest array of services especially easy to expand into say datalake, BI or AI/ML experiments and production workloads starting from a core IaaS only setup one might have after migrating off own datacenter. I wonder if there are lesser known players positioning themselves in this space -- with managed services in platform/application space. Curious to know some examples.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#172

Post by vachina »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #169

I like it how everyone says that, but there is no european cloud operator able to offer what AWS/GCP/Azure offer. And if you are a start-up and you want to grow, the situation is even more dire. And without a few hundreds of billions of EUR invested _today_ there will still be at least a decade until basic infrastructure will be somewhat on par with current day hyperscalers from the US. And Office suite wise, it took…

The consumers are domestic EU so you don’t really need the reach and availability of the big 3.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#173

Post by ExoticPearTree »

bambax wrote: post #54
adrianN wrote: post #2

I kind of share the opinion of the FSF Europe that it is less important where software comes from compared to whether it’s libre, but for cloud hardware I really hope that we manage to create competitive European offerings. Maybe we’re lucky and this European initiative will produce more than five Fraunhofer institutes and a gift to SAP.

We already have excellent cloud providers in Europe. But most importantly, most businesses using the cloud would be better off with simple on-prem solutions. So much cheaper to operate and control.

> We already have excellent cloud providers in Europe.

Please provide a list, no sarcasm. And please don’t put Hetzner on it, as it is not a cloud provider.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#174

Post by UltraSane »

albert_e wrote: post #171

AWS seems to have seen the writing on the wall and has already launched a European Soverign Cloud -- a separate partition like they have for GovCloud and China. I am guessing other hyperscalers must be doing the same? Are we seeing a strong aversion among EU companies to use these offerings from US firms (AWS, Google, Microsoft) and viable competition emerging from Europe? The selling point of many offerings from cur…

Can any AWS data center really be immune from US national security letters?

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#175

Post by mgh95 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #108
mgh95 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Higher salaries aren't always better, especially when you're almost willfully ignoring more important things like purchasing power and quality of life. Senior SWE salaries I'm finding in a quick google search in Spain are 80k eur. According to levels.fyi [1] Google (and presumably the other clouds) are paying 170k eur. The comparison isn't even "is 4x the salary better in the US?" it's "is 2x the salary better in t…

Again, by focusing solely on the salary you're missing the bigger picture. I know y'all are conditioned to just focusing on the salary, but there is so much more to life.

I don't think I am. Spanish employees of Google benefit just as much from Spanish employment law as Jose's Web Dev Shop. It's the purest comparison considering it's within the exact same country.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#176

Post by dopidopHN2 »

rookonaut wrote: post #148
202508042147 wrote: post #58

Last week I migrated our db away from AWS RDS to a European cloud provider. Everything runs fine and we also have it cheaper! One of our domains is due for renewal in a couple of months. I'm setting up the transfer to a EU registrar for it next week. This all takes time and it's not the most important thing for the bottom line, but on the long run I'm sure I'll look back and say it was a great investment.

Can you disclose which European cloud provider you chose?

OVH in my case

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#177

Post by barnacs »

preisschild wrote: post #61
barnacs wrote: post #39

As if the surveillance and regulation by the unelected EU bureaucrats was any better for the European citizens...

"Unelected EU bureucrats" Clearly shows you have absolutely zero idea about what you are talking about and just take your talking points from people like Elon Musk

I happen to live in the EU so I may have a slight clue what I'm talking about.

But if you want an authority on the subject, look up Yanis Varoufakis and how sovereignty and democracy worked out for Greece when shit hit the fan.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#178

Post by deaux »

Everyone talking about rules and regulations being a blocker to EU software sovereignty is completely clueless. Unfortunately a lot of these people are actually European but they've drank the decades of US koolaid.

There are about 200 countries in this world. 195 of them are as of today reliant on foreign-controlled software to a similar degree, which is "completely and utterly in every facet, across consumer, business and government levels".

Let's talk about the other 4 then (excluding the US), with varying degrees. One of them has magnitudes more government interference than the EU. Another one also has both more government interference and stricter rules and regulations, both in terms of labor laws and things like data privacy - even stricter than GDPR. The third one has less of this, but still much more of it than the US, and has the lowest sovereignty level out of the four.

I've talked about three, that leaves the fourth. The fourth one is Russia.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#179

Post by bell-cot »

yoavm wrote: post #130
bluecalm wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>As a European, I am glad that this is finally discussed in the open! I have made multiple comments in the last weeks that one of the most important things, for me, is an alternative to the Visa/Mastercard duopoly. The main reason we don't have an alternative to Visa/Mastercard duopoly is protectionism of EU countries. There are local alternatives that do pretty well (BLIK in Poland, Revolut Pay in countries where i…

> The main reason we don't have an alternative to Visa/Mastercard duopoly is protectionism of EU countries. There are local alternatives that do pretty well (BLIK in Poland, Revolut Pay in countries where it's popular) but entering more markets is like pulling teeth because EU throws regulatory obstacles at every step. That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense? How did Visa & Mastercard manage to go through the "prote…

> How did Visa & Mastercard manage...

I'd bet a combination of:

- Got through before the red tape ramparts were nearly as thick as today

- Ungentle arm-twisting by the US Gov't... at Visa & Mastercard's behest

- Amply greased palms... which can't be traced to Visa or Mastercard. At least not in any jurisdiction which would do anything about it.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#180

Post by shaky-carrousel »

atmosx wrote: post #38
abc123abc123 wrote: post #23

This already happened. Hetzner, OVH, and countless other local cloud companies exist. It is only the path of least resistancd and market inertia, that stops companies from switching. I run on Hetzner and am saving big bucks compared to the ridiculously high priced AWS.

Comparing EU cloud providers to AWS is like comparing a 1963 Zastava to 2025 high end BYD because both of them are cars and can drive from point A to point B.

Hm, equating AWS to a 1963 Zastava is pretty demeaning to the Zastava. At least the Zastava was cheap junk, not premium-priced junk.
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