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How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

nytimes.com

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Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#171

Post by mothballed »

text0404 wrote: post #170
mothballed wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You dismiss the relevance of following others as irrelevant because it's all "decentralized". Yet damn me for not offering a "solution." You sir, are a hypocrite. If I'm damned for not offering you a solution, it can't simultaneously be true following my "solution" is irrelevant to third parties and everything waived away as "decentralized". Conversation ended for bad faith practice, heads I win, tails you lose scena…

So instead of replying with ways that you think the movement could combat injustice, you've decided to make this personal? It's okay to say "I don't know," but you probably shouldn't pretend to speak with authority on a subject that you completely fold on when questioned beyond surface level. > bad faith Projection if I've ever seen it.

Since I am done with this sack of shit, I'd like to make a note for others.

This individual has set a very clever logical fallacy trap.

He has required you to set an example for others to follow.

While claiming that following of others is irrelevant because it's 'decentralized.'

This means following you cannot be used for benefit for others. But yet not offering something to follow can still be used against you for the purpose of damning you. Another words, in this clever logical fallacy, your "solutions" can only be used against you.

It's a very cunning trap, and ultimately the goal here is to suggest there is a mark to your honor for not falling for it, which sets the snare for others to fall in. As soon as you call him out on this, he falls to the fallacy of "appeal to authority" by claiming you have none.

Unfortunately it takes a degree of intelligence to see past this, so you can see why this immoral character employs this deceptive strategy.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#172

Post by cindyllm »

mothballed wrote: post #171
text0404 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead of replying with ways that you think the movement could combat injustice, you've decided to make this personal? It's okay to say "I don't know," but you probably shouldn't pretend to speak with authority on a subject that you completely fold on when questioned beyond surface level. > bad faith Projection if I've ever seen it.

Since I am done with this sack of shit, I'd like to make a note for others. This individual has set a very clever logical fallacy trap. He has required you to set an example for others to follow. While claiming that following of others is irrelevant because it's 'decentralized.' This means following you cannot be used for benefit for others. But yet not offering something to follow can still be used against you for t…

[dead]

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#173

Post by text0404 »

mothballed wrote: post #171
text0404 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead of replying with ways that you think the movement could combat injustice, you've decided to make this personal? It's okay to say "I don't know," but you probably shouldn't pretend to speak with authority on a subject that you completely fold on when questioned beyond surface level. > bad faith Projection if I've ever seen it.

Since I am done with this sack of shit, I'd like to make a note for others. This individual has set a very clever logical fallacy trap. He has required you to set an example for others to follow. While claiming that following of others is irrelevant because it's 'decentralized.' This means following you cannot be used for benefit for others. But yet not offering something to follow can still be used against you for t…

This is just 4chan-level drivel. It's wild to witness the thin veneer of intellectualism dissolve under scrutiny. There's no "cunning trap" here, I asked you a simple question which you still haven't answered. And instead you've just seized on a strawman and devolved into ad hominem.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#174

Post by tharmas »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #114
tharmas wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

As far as I can tell, there's been "mass immigration" since before there was an "America". Colonial settlers in the 17th century, along with Africans taken against their will. Assorted European immigrants in the 18th, along with Asian laborers and Mexicans taken against their will. So on and so forth. There have always been "immigrants". The US and all the other countries in the Americas are immigrant nations.

Since the end of WW2 has their been such immigration numbers?

Also, such numbers from non-western countries post WW2?

Immigration is largely to keep the wages down. Surely you know that.

Why are you repeating neoliberal ownership propaganda?

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#175

Post by fyredge »

Herring wrote: post #165
fyredge wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the quality of life was unsustainable without immigration, what makes it sustainable with? Current immigrants come from countries with high population growth. When their population growth slows down, will they get their immigrants too?

> If the quality of life was unsustainable without immigration, what makes it sustainable with? Think of it like (internal) trade, it's a win-win. I've been reading about Brexit recently. It's super easy to convince uninformed UK voters that "look the EU is benefiting from trade with us, so if we stop trade we can take all their benefit and keep all our benefit" ... That's not how it works. In the real world it's lik…

Thank you for your reply as I posted my comment in part with the hopes to have my view changed. But I don't think you really addressed my concerns.

1. I support globalization and the specialization of countries. Taiwan specialising in chips is one of the major reasons china hasn't annexed it yet.

2. I am pro immigration in the sense that anyone should be free to move to any country that they choose.

3. I am not worried about china's immigration policy as I don't think they encourage immigration.

4. I am ambivalent to increased competition among immigrants, competition will always be present.

What I'm arguing against is the notion that developed countries need immigration. Why should any one country need it? Immigration should be welcomed to those who align with the values of the country. Want to be a devout Muslim? Move to the middle east. Love Confucianism? Move to an east Asia. Want American style freedom? Move to the US. But when a nation is not able to sustain their quality of life solely with the resources they possess, requiring immigration to prop themselves up seems like a desperate move and only kicks the proverbial can down the road to future generations.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#176

Post by Herring »

fyredge wrote: post #175
Herring wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the quality of life was unsustainable without immigration, what makes it sustainable with? Think of it like (internal) trade, it's a win-win. I've been reading about Brexit recently. It's super easy to convince uninformed UK voters that "look the EU is benefiting from trade with us, so if we stop trade we can take all their benefit and keep all our benefit" ... That's not how it works. In the real world it's lik…

Thank you for your reply as I posted my comment in part with the hopes to have my view changed. But I don't think you really addressed my concerns. 1. I support globalization and the specialization of countries. Taiwan specialising in chips is one of the major reasons china hasn't annexed it yet. 2. I am pro immigration in the sense that anyone should be free to move to any country that they choose. 3. I am not worri…

I think there's always going to be people who would rather be "VP marketing" over "parent". When you have an entire nation of DINK (double income no kids), it must age and therefore it must import immigrants to keep the treadmill going. Must keep ahead of China, after all.

The older I get the more I kinda want to retire from that lifestyle and move to Spain or something. It's much easier to move than to try convincing Americans anything about healthcare or parental leave or any of those socialist policies.

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#177

Post by kreetx »

mindslight wrote: post #166
kreetx wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Planning ahead to put your own health at risk?

That's a weird way to frame the perspective of someone whose primary job responsibility is physical aggression. It's also not too hard to jump out of the way of a vehicle that you're focusing on if it starts moving. The argument you're effectively making is that the agent's positioning was entirely non-deliberate , even though he had been dragged by a car previously.

So the argument you are effectively making is that the police officer was planning to jump out of the way and this posed reasonably little health risk?

Re: How ICE knows who Minneapolis protesters are

#178

Post by fyredge »

Herring wrote: post #176
fyredge wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for your reply as I posted my comment in part with the hopes to have my view changed. But I don't think you really addressed my concerns. 1. I support globalization and the specialization of countries. Taiwan specialising in chips is one of the major reasons china hasn't annexed it yet. 2. I am pro immigration in the sense that anyone should be free to move to any country that they choose. 3. I am not worri…

I think there's always going to be people who would rather be "VP marketing" over "parent". When you have an entire nation of DINK (double income no kids), it must age and therefore it must import immigrants to keep the treadmill going. Must keep ahead of China, after all. The older I get the more I kinda want to retire from that lifestyle and move to Spain or something. It's much easier to move than to try convincin…

That's great that you have your plans sorted out. I'm working in a HCOL area and plan to move to a more relaxed place for retirement myself. The thing is, neither of us would be part of the immigration that is necessary for a continued QOL.

In the extreme case of an entire nation of DINKs, that nation will cease to exist as it once was. It I think in some sense, having kids is like paying for social security. If an entire society does not have kids, then who are they to demand that their quality of life remains? In fact, it feels a little selfish to me that they did not wish to bear the burden to child rearing, yet ask for others to maintain what they did not work to keep. Perhaps this makes childbirth seem too transactional, but I believe it has always been somewhat the case.

It's a shame that the world is a rat race. Why worry about letting China race ahead when they subject themselves to so much stress that the younger generations are "lying flat"? The race to more wealth as an indicator of a good life sounds too convenient to be true.

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