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ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

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Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#171

Post by budgefrankly »

cmiles8 wrote: post #165

I’m generally supportive of the tech industry’s move to rid itself of too many mangers. Most managers are no longer technical, and just create bloated middle layers that slow everyone else down. The only managers that are decent are the ones that have kept their technical skills sharp. Most others just seem to be able to say “my team will follow-up” and “my team will look into this” and are beyond useless. Few are sh…

> Most managers are no longer technical, and just create bloated middle layers that slow everyone else down.

> The only managers that are decent are the ones that have kept their technical skills sharp.

Alex Ferguson was a terrible footballer when he was managing Manchester United. Yet they won the premiership in 6 of his last 10 years in that role, and have never won it since he left.

The skills that make one great at doing work on ones own aren't necessarily the skills that make a _team_ of 3, 6, 12 people all collaborate with one another, and with the other teams within the company.

Good management is rare, due to the tendency to promote engineers into the role instead of hiring people specifically trained in that discipline, but when you're in a well-managed -- and hence highly focused -- team the results you can all obtain together can be impressive.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#172

Post by Cthulhu_ »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #116
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly, but there's no-compete clauses (which are hard to enforce), plus these are mostly managers, not engineers, definitely not engineers that have the deeper knowledge of the systems. But even the knowledge on its own is enough - after all, a lot of that is in published scientific papers already. ASML works because they combined everything. China can't just build a copy of their EUV machines without also having…

> but there's no-compete clauses (which are hard to enforce) I'm pretty sure those aren't even a consideration if you relocate to a different economic superpower.

Nah, worst that can happen is you get arrested if you try to go back or are in a country with an extradition policy, but that's only if it's considered a criminal case (e.g. espionage instead of no-compete) or there's a warrant out, else a no-compete clause is a civil matter.

And besides, while in the Netherlands people do sign no-compete clauses, in practice they're not enforceable by law. Or so I've heard.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#173

Post by izacus »

eru wrote: post #36
ygouzerh wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the company perspective, performing buyback when market is high is just throwing cash by the windows to over-priced shares. If they wanted to distribute cash, they could just use dividends

Buybacks and dividends are economically equivalent. They mostly differ in tax treatment.

Funny how "company does tax evasion to avoid paying their share" is praised :P

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#174

Post by Cthulhu_ »

Slartie wrote: post #55
culi wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ASML just set revenue records and its stock is surging due to the Q4 results

Which is mostly the result of clever engineers that produced a machine no other company in the world can assemble, but that is absolutely crucial to businesses valued at double-digit trillions of dollars. You don't really need an army of sales managers to sell such a product. Going lean on management and more heavy on engineering is therefore a good idea if you want to keep the lead you have.

No, but ASML's product is so complicated that they do need a lot more than just engineers - they have 5000 suppliers apparently, coordinating that takes a lot more than clever engineers.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#175

Post by joe_mamba »

piva00 wrote: post #170
vachina wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is German labor laws do not allow hustling. Progress will be slow if everyone kinda just coast on cruise control.

Labour laws have much less of an impact than the work or overall culture. Sweden has quite strong labour protection but can be much more innovative than Germany because there's much less emphasis in respecting titles, seniority, and authority than the Germans. German education has a big emphasis on bowing down to authority from early age, Sweden is much more lax (and even though Jantelagen isn't a big thing in modern…

>German education has a big emphasis on bowing down to authority from early age

Ah, good ol' legacy of the education system implemented by Prussia, who wanted an army of conformist soldiers following orders, and not free thinkers risking to upset the apple cart. Great mentality if all you want is waging war though :)

And this mentality persist to this day, where given a set of rules, other successful related cultures like Dutch, Brits or Swedes will first use common sense when interpreting and applying them, whereas Germans will tend to blindly follow those rules by the book even if they don't make sense in that specific context.

It's difficult to uproot people from their ways, when they've only lived in Plato's cave allegory.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#176

Post by eru »

izacus wrote: post #173
eru wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buybacks and dividends are economically equivalent. They mostly differ in tax treatment.

Funny how "company does tax evasion to avoid paying their share" is praised :P

Are you sure you know what 'tax evasion' means?

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#177

Post by Rastonbury »

noosphr wrote: post #84
ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen a company that ... You have not seen Alphabet, Apple, Microsoft? Where are you looking? They all did tens of billions of share buybacks every year for many years now. Example: Alphabet has started share buybacks in 2015 and increased those every year. $70B in 2025 alone. And they are firing on all cylinders product-wise.

I'm happy you made my point for me.

I'm not sure what the point is wrt ASML, they made good bets, they won their monopoly, their shareholders who funded the bets get to enjoy monopoly pricing. If they start cutting R&D and lose their crown, yes it's shame I guess but that's all there is. To expect a company to sell their goods cheaply when they are the only ones in the world who can them is asking for too much. It's great that they and their investors took the punt on EUV all those years ago, we probably would not have the chips we have today and all the economic benefits around it

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#178

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

cmiles8 wrote: post #165

I’m generally supportive of the tech industry’s move to rid itself of too many mangers. Most managers are no longer technical, and just create bloated middle layers that slow everyone else down. The only managers that are decent are the ones that have kept their technical skills sharp. Most others just seem to be able to say “my team will follow-up” and “my team will look into this” and are beyond useless. Few are sh…

My company dumped a bunch of managers and now we are all stuck doing their manager work but we aren't managers

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#179

Post by accidentallfact »

joe_mamba wrote: post #104
alias_neo wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Qimonda Sorry for the tangent, I haven't heard this name in over 15 years, I interviewed with them the summer before the final year of my BEng, and was offered a job in China to allegedly built a real-time voice/video communications system between what they said were their three facilities in beautiful looking part of China I can't remember the name of now. Looking through my Gmail, it was 2008 they offered my the…

Thanks for sharing. You know what's ironic about Qimonda? China bought their IP after they went under, and used it to build two domestic NAND and DRAM manufacturers that are set to become giants. Funny how China has the vision to use, finance and monetize where western governments keep failing. That's what hurts the most to see. EU says they want a strong domestic electronics industry, but with the exception of ASML,…

It seems to me (and maybe I'm wrong), but it seems to me that "a lack of IP" increasingly means "we have no leverage to get the licences that we need" in China, and "we have no idea how they used to do it" in the west.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#180

Post by menaerus »

flyinglizard wrote: post #140
uxcolumbo wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ASML is a net positive for the world. Scientists pushing technology forward. Read about how they achieved EUV lithography, what an amazing feat. META is a net negative for the world. Its leadership prioritizes profit over user safety (e.g. not protecting children), it allowed democracies to be undermined by boosting misinformation and social division.

Whatsapp is a strong net positive. This is the world’s communication network (I’m counting US out because it is counting itself out)

WhatsApp was not developed by Meta. They just bought it. That said, I don't think Meta/FB is a net-negative, far from it. They contributed back to the community with high quality infra-level software.
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