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Waiting for dawn in search: Search index, Google rulings and impact on Kagi

blog.kagi.com

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Re: Waiting for dawn in search: Search index, Google rulings and impact on Kagi

#171

Post by ares623 »

z64 wrote: post #77
ares623 wrote: post #37

Kagi should start building an index of sites that are trying to escape the current slop internet. It’s know they have the Small Web thing. But I’d like to see an index of a “neo internet” that blocks Google et al.

I've been tossing around the very early idea of seeing what we can do to elevate alcoves of the web such as Gemini[1] through Kagi. I am slightly conscious of that some people might not like us operating in that space, it's been on my TODO to poll people about it and take a quick pulse. I love the tech and think we could give it meaningful exposure. Is this along the lines of what you have in mind - any other active…

That's cool that you're looking into it. Are you saying that in any "official" manner as a Kagi employee? Or something more personal?

I've been meaning to write an RFC or open-letter of sorts to collect ideas for what a neo or parallel web could look like, but I'm just a nobody so shrug. It'll probably be something very fragmented and very very niche but nowadays I think that can be seen as a good thing.

Re: Waiting for dawn in search: Search index, Google rulings and impact on Kagi

#173

Post by lostlogin »

thisislife2 wrote: post #172

> Layer 3: Paid, subscription-based search Should actually be - Layer 3: Paid, ad-free , subscription-based search. (It's a subtle omission that indicates the direction Kagi search will eventually take).

It does say ‘without selling your attention.’

This isn’t quite the same thing though.

I hope you are wrong, if not… wow.

Re: Waiting for dawn in search: Search index, Google rulings and impact on Kagi

#174

Post by lostlogin »

0x1ch wrote: post #119
dylan604 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read it more as "company having morals". Not many US companies have "morals".

Google doesn't, Kagi seems to (hopefully). I meant this more as a jab at countries willing to block Google, as they're generally dictatorships / authoritarian in nature. Oh the irony, as an american saying this in 2026....

They do, but do they align with your own?

It’s difficult, because Kagi results are so good and the alternatives are often business that behave worse.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42349797

Re: Waiting for dawn in search: Search index, Google rulings and impact on Kagi

#175

Post by zvqcMMV6Zcr »

Recently I encounter "no results" screen when using Google that I am starting to suspect the problem will solve itself. And by solve I mean open parts of internet will die off completely, and only owners of silos like Facebook will be able to provide data for search indexes.

Re: Waiting for dawn in search: Search index, Google rulings and impact on Kagi

#176

Post by lostlogin »

m-schuetz wrote: post #164
pfist wrote: post #87

I am rooting for Kagi here, and I applaud their transparency on such matters. It is quite enlightening for someone like me who understands technology but knows little about the inner workings of search. It remains to be seen how or if the remedies will be enforced, and, of course, how Google will choose to comply with them. I am not optimistic, but at least there is some hope. As an aside: The 1998 white paper by Bri…

I'm rooting for Kagi solely because the block feature. It's amazing to be able to block undeservedly SEO'd garbage sites from future search results.

Blocking, pinning and the general quality.

I’d pay a more if I could opt out of Yandex, and if it integrated properly with iOS (Apples fault).

Re: Waiting for dawn in search: Search index, Google rulings and impact on Kagi

#177

Post by stavros »

charcircuit wrote: post #170
stavros wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really do need every single site, as search is a long tail problem. All the interesting stuff is in the fringes, if you only have a few big sites you'll have a search engine of spam.

I think that is only needed for a small subset of queries. Seriously think of the last time you did a search and went to a fringe site as opposed to a well known brand or social media. Ranking quality is much more important than coverage over the whole internet.

> Seriously think of the last time you did a search and went to a fringe site as opposed to a well known brand or social media.

Oh, almost never. That's exactly why search sucks now.

Re: Waiting for dawn in search: Search index, Google rulings and impact on Kagi

#178

Post by kavalg »

monooso wrote: post #138
dylan604 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does Google even need to know about your ladder? Build the bot, scale it up, save all the data, then release. You can now remove the ladder and obey robots.txt just like G. Just like G, once you have the data, you have the data. Why would you tell G that you are doing something? Why tell a competitor your plans at all? Just launch your product when the product is ready. I know that's anathema to SV startup logic,…

Cost, presumably. From the article: > Microsoft spent roughly $100 billion over 20 years on Bing and still holds single-digit share. If Microsoft cannot close the gap, no startup can do it alone.

Wouldn't it be nice if Microsoft opened the bing index for all.

Re: Waiting for dawn in search: Search index, Google rulings and impact on Kagi

#179

Post by zhfanlqeo »

I used kagi for a while but got lazy with updating the subscription when moving and needing to change credit cards so I went back to DDG/Google and having to go back to having to skip the first result or first few results shows you just how obnoxious this practice is. When I have a few moments I'll resubscribe to kagi...

Re: Waiting for dawn in search: Search index, Google rulings and impact on Kagi

#180

Post by zhfanlqeo »

xnx wrote: post #3

> Because direct licensing isn’t available to us on compatible terms, we - like many others - use third-party API providers for SERP-style results Crazy for a company to admit: "Google won't let us whitelabel their core product so we steal it and resell it."

Crying to Big Daddy Government because those other mean companies won't give away their secret sauce is pretty lame and doesn't make me want to reinscribe.
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