> You can't change the RAM on laptops now.
> You can't change the SSD on laptops now.
> You can't easily repair the screen on laptops now.
I can do all of that on my Thinkpad E14.
I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13
171–180 of 314 posts
Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s all well and good, but you didn’t consider the processor performance, which is where the FW13 falls behind. fw13 - https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/15773121 MacBook Air - https://browser.geekbench.com/macs/macbook-air-15-inch-2025 There is a gulf between the two and that’s what is sacrificed on the FW13. I m not saying someone can’t decide to prioritize modularity, storage, and repairability over performan…
This is a more comparable benchmark (it's the current FW13): https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/15769561 The MBA has about a 20% better score on the single thread perf benchmark. It's better, but is it that significant ? Especially as it has no active cooling. By the time thermal throttling kicks in the FW13 will keep chugging along. The MBP solves that issue, albeit at significantly higher price range. Then again,…
Right, I was going to bring up real world over geekbench.
For example, in the real world, you’ve gotta run most PC games using CrossOver on Mac with significant performance implications or have them not work at all, where modern Linux/x86 is nearly fully PC game compatible, and the AMD integrated graphics are much more game-optimized than Apple’s.
The arbitrary spec limits on Apple systems also get in your way. Want 4TB of storage? Want more than 32GB of RAM? You have to upgrade to a MacBook Pro even if you don’t want all the other features and expense of the Pro model.
Is all you want a USB-C port on the right side or an SD card reader? Pony up the extra $600 for the 14” MacBook Pro.
Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13
#173The really special thing about Frameworks is that you can quickly buy and replace basically any part, not just the usual RAM and SSD -- case in point, when I managed to damage my FW13's keyboard such that it was no longer usable, I could just... go straight to Framework's website and buy a new one for $40. And, I even had the option of a slightly improved one, that shed the Windows key and lacked the god-awful copilo…
I’ve always found this line of thinking to match up with drivers of old Land Rovers. The thinking goes they are brilliant because they are so easy to repair and parts are easy to source globally. While that’s true, I much prefer to drive vehicles that don’t need repairs.
It would also be apt if the handover cost $10,000 but the engine cost $9000.
My framework 13 is OKAY. But the reality of it is the economics just don’t make sense with their pricing.
The biggest thing people can comment on the keyboard is easily replaceable. That’s cool and I love the idea, but any vendor could do that part.
Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my experience (my partner has a Framework), changing a port is not something easily done without putting the Framework bottom side up. In practice you need to stop whatever you are doing to first sleep the laptop, turn it over, change the port and then get back to what you were doing before. Repeat the process if you want to get the ports back in the original order.
Yeah, I agree with this. I find it simpler to just carry a couple of usb-c to whatever hub/adapters for when I need to a port my framework doesn't have built in.
The expansion cards seem pretty gimmicky to me. You're replacing a hub with... a bunch of hubs with one port on it. I know it opens up to some third party modules (this one seems particularly cool: https://github.com/LeoDJ/FW-EC-DongleHiderPlus) but for the most part you are getting less connectivity than other laptops. You don't even get an audio jack without taking up one of your expansion slots (edit: on the Framework 16. 13 includes it).
If the expansion slots were larger then they could have maybe facilitated something like getting 2 usb-a ports in exchange for the one USB-C which feels like an actual thing to consider. As it is, it just doesn't feel like you're gaining anything. If you're carrying any additional expansion cards with you you lose the only advantage it has over buying a hub, which can turn that one usb-c slot into multiple usb-a ports, ethernet, hdmi, audio, sd card reader, etc.
Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
I assume not just replace, but upgrade, in some cases
You can swap out the motherboard, so yeah. Not sure how long they support specific Laptop bodies (or frames) for but I would imagine some of their frames are good for a long minute.
The motherboards are often 80%+ the cost of an entire new machine though.
Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13
#176I want to like framework, but whenever I've seen one of them in person I was pretty disappointed about the case/chassis. And the touchpad.
For me personally, weight doesn't matter that much, and neither does configurability (I guess by now they have data on the most popular port choices for example).
But size (as small/minimal as possible for a given screen and keyboard size – minimal bezels for both) and strength (no flex, solid hinge) do matter to me.
I understand these two things conflict with themselves, and with the framework's repairability and configurability.
Still, I'd like to see some true innovation there. I'm just afraid they painted themselves into a corner with their current mainboard design, and won't be able to diverge from that to bring us something truly solid yet compact and repairable.
Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13
#177I think the author is the target customer for Framework. A customer looking for a ship of Theseus laptop that the seller stands by. I’ve looked at framework as a potential next laptop but it’s expensive, some of parts are expensive, and the other parts I’m not sure I’ve ever had issues with in past laptops. I think I’m better off buying multiple used thinkpads over the course of my life, or even a used MBP (refurbish…
I’m own a FW13 and I have bought ~4 for employees.
I doubt I will order more. We’ve had small and large issues.
My Linux machine will drain the battery completely if you don’t perform a full shutdown, and even then the quiescent drain is too high and I can expect it to be dead in a week.
The dream of repairability is great, but the reality just isn’t there.
That said, I was able to replace a damaged screen with no effort at all. A far cry from the MS Surface I had previously, but any vendor could sell a screen or keyboard without the “full modularity” that FW pushes.
Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
My FW13 has two USB-C ports so I can charge from either side and have one free while it's charging, and then USB-A on one side and MicroSD on the other. That covers all of my frequent needs. (My main monitor has usb-c input, and I have a couple of inexpensive adapters/hubs for HDMI, DP, Ethernet, etc. - all of which are used infrequently.) I was a little concerned before buying it, and four is probably the minimum nu…
I don't know anything at all about hardware engineering, but I am surprised they couldn't stuff 2 USB-C ports into one of those modules.
Folks have done it in the community forum, and it works fine for basic data. It gets tricky when you want to support charging, because then you need multiple voltage levels and the circuitry to convert between them. Apparently video is hard to do also.
Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
This curse extends to mechanical keyboards as well. There exists all sorts of fancy, beautiful and odd keycap sets... for Americans. Some times for German and French. If I get really lucky, I'll find some with a "Nordic" layout, which is an abomination that combines dk/se/no.
Not a us user, but ended up with us and uk layout, just because they where easier to find. (also works fine for programming)
Yea, the danish layout is objectively terrible[1], but I have many decades of muscle memory with it now...
[1] Shift+7 == /, AltGr+¨ == ~. These two in particular are tedious as a Linux user.
Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
This curse extends to mechanical keyboards as well. There exists all sorts of fancy, beautiful and odd keycap sets... for Americans. Some times for German and French. If I get really lucky, I'll find some with a "Nordic" layout, which is an abomination that combines dk/se/no.
The solution is to get blank keycaps. Then it doesn’t matter.
Kind of true, but it's an aesthetics issue as well. The doubleshot keycaps look so nice :)