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Fahrplan – 39C3

fahrplan.events.ccc.de

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Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#171

Post by saubeidl »

wincy wrote: post #169
saubeidl wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem has been the continuous purposeful rightward shift of the overton window as part of a wider strategy by the far right. You see it in action here, where the politics of the CCC, despite not having changed since their founding are suddenly decried as "very far left". You see the far-right decrying our democratically elected government as "dictatorship", a classic Putinist propaganda move. Don't let the righ…

If San Francisco is what you get when you embrace the left, and opposition to that is fascism, I think a lot of us have just decided we must be fascists.

San Francisco is a right-wing, pro-capitalist place.

The left would be public ownership of the means of production.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#172

Post by kstrauser »

wincy wrote: post #169
saubeidl wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem has been the continuous purposeful rightward shift of the overton window as part of a wider strategy by the far right. You see it in action here, where the politics of the CCC, despite not having changed since their founding are suddenly decried as "very far left". You see the far-right decrying our democratically elected government as "dictatorship", a classic Putinist propaganda move. Don't let the righ…

If San Francisco is what you get when you embrace the left, and opposition to that is fascism, I think a lot of us have just decided we must be fascists.

Never been here, huh?

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#173

Post by weakfish »

jasonvorhe wrote: post #155
weakfish wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really do appreciate your willingness to live and let live. Too many people from all perspectives are missing that ability when it comes to non-critical things, and forget that they can just… not hang out with the people they disagree with. The other comments below you seem to be willingly ignoring that you did the mature/kind thing and just wished them well and moved on, whereas a less mature person would have cau…

Appreciate the kind response. At least someone read the entire comment before responding. :)

No problem. And FWIW, I’m what I’d consider a highly left-wing person. I only say that to give a sample that not all of us are like that. But I recognize that the loud ones get the attention.

I draw the line on live-and-let live only when the other person’s ideology poses a physical threat to me or my liberties, or those of other folks. But what you describe is how things ought to be - if you don’t feel like hanging around leftists, who the hell cares? I probably wouldn’t want to hang out in a highly conservative space, but I also don’t care if they hang out without me.

Merry Christmas!

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#174

Post by 2780781306408 »

saubeidl wrote: post #170
toxik wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could use exactly the same rhetoric to make the opposite argument.

Sure, but you would be denying reality. Look at the political reality in Europe and the US. How many countries are led by the far right? What about the far left?

[flagged]

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#175

Post by tormeh »

wincy wrote: post #169
saubeidl wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem has been the continuous purposeful rightward shift of the overton window as part of a wider strategy by the far right. You see it in action here, where the politics of the CCC, despite not having changed since their founding are suddenly decried as "very far left". You see the far-right decrying our democratically elected government as "dictatorship", a classic Putinist propaganda move. Don't let the righ…

If San Francisco is what you get when you embrace the left, and opposition to that is fascism, I think a lot of us have just decided we must be fascists.

You mean the epitome, the nerve center, the capital and apex of 21st century entrepreneurial capitalism? That left-wing bastion? Ridiculous.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#176

Post by holowoodman »

saubeidl wrote: post #164
holowoodman wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congress has become a radical leftist politics playground. That is the real problem. > Some people just like to complain that they have to take a shower and can't harass women like they used to like they could when congress was at the BCC and that kind of nonsense didn't immediately get you thrown out like today. You could never do that. A few years ago, some activists tried to make a fuzz with stuff like creeper car…

The problem has been the continuous purposeful rightward shift of the overton window as part of a wider strategy by the far right. You see it in action here, where the politics of the CCC, despite not having changed since their founding are suddenly decried as "very far left". You see the far-right decrying our democratically elected government as "dictatorship", a classic Putinist propaganda move. Don't let the righ…

> You see it in action here, where the politics of the CCC, despite not having changed since their founding are suddenly decried as "very far left".

No, things have changed in CCC as well. Back in the day, free speech (in the US definition) and a firm opposition to any censorship were consensus on CCC. Nowadays, censorship is totally OK if it targets the right. And any kind of remotely right-wing opinion is declared "not free speech, not an opinion, thus not protected". This is also evidenced by quite a few talks on the topic, and cooperation with far-left activist groups like "Zentrum fuer politische Schönheit" sabotaging right-wing speech on several occasions.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#177

Post by rapnie »

moltopoco wrote: post #125
user764743 wrote: post #113

I'll never get people who say that there is too much politics at a god damn hacker conference like the CCC, considering The Chaos Computer Club was founded in 1981 specifically to be a political watchdog. more so especially since the very act of "hacking" is a political statement because it involves redistributing power over information. Code is law, remember? That would be like complaining about "too much law" at a…

It seems that no modern comment section is complete without the complaint "too much politics", then followed by "but everything is political". Some talks do not even try to draw a line from politics to computers, and I think that is what people feel unhappy about. https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2025/fahrplan/event/... https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2025/fahrplan/event/... https://fahrplan.events.ccc…

Unrelated to this conference I've often heard the "everything is political" argument, and mostly with a passive-aggressive "or else.." (you're up for a political fight) undertone. I once enquired on very mundane things in life, and yes "those too are political act". Well, if everything is bleakly political in that sense, we may make it universal, just call it Newspeak.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#178

Post by saubeidl »

holowoodman wrote: post #176
saubeidl wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem has been the continuous purposeful rightward shift of the overton window as part of a wider strategy by the far right. You see it in action here, where the politics of the CCC, despite not having changed since their founding are suddenly decried as "very far left". You see the far-right decrying our democratically elected government as "dictatorship", a classic Putinist propaganda move. Don't let the righ…

> You see it in action here, where the politics of the CCC, despite not having changed since their founding are suddenly decried as "very far left". No, things have changed in CCC as well. Back in the day, free speech (in the US definition) and a firm opposition to any censorship were consensus on CCC. Nowadays, censorship is totally OK if it targets the right. And any kind of remotely right-wing opinion is declared…

Why is what right wingers do speech that should be protected, but not what the "Zentrum fuer politische Schönheit" does?

There's a certain hypocrisy in all right wing demands for free speech. They always mean freedom of their speech, not of people they disagree with.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#180

Post by sunaookami »

top_sigrid wrote: post #154
raymond_goo wrote: post #94

First time without fefe :-(

Is there actually anything known to his wellbeing?

He actually made a blogpost on December 6th regarding Warner Bros & Netflix but it's kinda weird: http://blog.fefe.de/?ts=97cd29cd Seems like he still needs a lot of time to recover.
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