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Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

newyorker.com

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Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#171

Post by Freedom2 »

lacoolj wrote: post #146
mosura wrote: post #26

Went for dinner with a Parisian friend of mine. He spent a good amount of it complaining that Paris is unrecognizable from his youth. Too many Americans, everywhere!

I never knew "Parisian" was how to refer to "one from Paris" Learn something new every day. To be clear, I just didn't think anyone would refer to someone from Paris specifically (rather than, "French"). I mean, a lot of places you would add "-ite" but I'm guessing that would be a less-than-ideal suffix for this particular city lol

As someone who knows a lot of New Yorkers and Texans, it's definitely curious that people would refer to themselves as from a city versus from the country itself.

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#172

Post by eudamoniac »

yeahthatguy10 wrote: post #134
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say every American should try to be an expat. I think we'd be better off as a society if everyone traveled abroad more. I know most can't afford that, but I'd be totally down for a state funded 'study abroad' program for bright students. Other places have ideas we can learn from (and vice versa)

The average American thinks the U.S is the best country in the world. I say that as an American. To your point if people saw how the rest of the world lives and how happy many of those 7.88 Billion people are they would start being more vocal about our endless cycle of work until you are 85 to be able to pay your property taxes.

If an average American chose to have the standard of living of the average 7.88 billion, they could retire very very young.

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#173

Post by ryandrake »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #117
dauertewigkeit wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The farmers and the sawmill operators are easily explained. I also listen to Bloomberg, lol. Those people are rich and most of their wealth is now diversified away from their businesses, and while they would rather keep those businesses alive because it's part of their family identity, they care more about reducing their taxes on their overall net worth.

Please explain the ACA subsidies and SNAP benefit cuts to rural republican voters who will still vote for this then. Are these people going to change their vote? Again, likely not. Their mental model and their identity is rigid (along with a bit of in group and tribalism) and they will very likely vote this way to the very end. You can live a better life by leaving while waiting for these voters to age out, because y…

They are obviously not voting for a better life for themselves. They are voting for a worse life for their perceived enemies. A huge number of voters would rather suffer if it means people they don't like will suffer even more.

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#174

Post by ponector »

mothballed wrote: post #114
neilv wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you moved to a place that was physically safe, would gun ownership still be a top priority?

Seems paradoxical. If I'm not allowed to have guns, then I am physically unsafe, because someone from government will use violence against me if they both discover it and have the ability to do something about it. I wouldn't feel safe anywhere violence is used for malum prohibitum 'crimes.' In fact I don't feel safe basically anywhere a government exists because they all do this; this is part the reason why I live in…

>> I am physically unsafe, because someone from government will use violence against me

And how your gun can prevent this now? If you are allowed to carry a gun police will act like you have one lane shoot you. While in other case they will just beat you with stick.

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#175

Post by 47282847 »

mothballed wrote: post #114
neilv wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you moved to a place that was physically safe, would gun ownership still be a top priority?

Seems paradoxical. If I'm not allowed to have guns, then I am physically unsafe, because someone from government will use violence against me if they both discover it and have the ability to do something about it. I wouldn't feel safe anywhere violence is used for malum prohibitum 'crimes.' In fact I don't feel safe basically anywhere a government exists because they all do this; this is part the reason why I live in…

Oh wow! I wonder what must have happened to you that you feel so threatened. I only have positive experiences with government and police interactions. In multiple situations they made me feel safer and protected. I would however not feel safe around a gun, regardless of who owns it. Too much can go wrong.

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#176

Post by mothballed »

neilv wrote: post #161
mothballed wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems paradoxical. If I'm not allowed to have guns, then I am physically unsafe, because someone from government will use violence against me if they both discover it and have the ability to do something about it. I wouldn't feel safe anywhere violence is used for malum prohibitum 'crimes.' In fact I don't feel safe basically anywhere a government exists because they all do this; this is part the reason why I live in…

(don't know why you were downvoted for an honest-sounding response) If I understand correctly, the reasoning is a kind of long-term best-practice thinking? And that best-practice is a high enough priority that it would prevent you from moving someplace that was otherwise better than a place that would let you have guns? Is it only reasoning, or it there also a psychological component, like you'd also feel unsafe with…

My reasoning is that if firearms are banned then the underlying threat is that violence will be used against me for obtaining them. I consider myself unsafe if 'legitimate' violence will be used against me despite the fact I have deprived no one of their life, liberty, or property.

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#177

Post by wing-_-nuts »

Freedom2 wrote: post #170
yeahthatguy10 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average American thinks the U.S is the best country in the world. I say that as an American. To your point if people saw how the rest of the world lives and how happy many of those 7.88 Billion people are they would start being more vocal about our endless cycle of work until you are 85 to be able to pay your property taxes.

> The average American thinks the U.S is the best country in the world. If it wasn't, then why would the American school system teach American students that it is?

Have you heard of the word 'propaganda'?

For pete's sake, it's not legal in many states to even cover slavery, the indian genocide, or japanese internment in a way that actually holds the US responsible

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#178

Post by toomuchtodo »

ryandrake wrote: post #173
toomuchtodo wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain the ACA subsidies and SNAP benefit cuts to rural republican voters who will still vote for this then. Are these people going to change their vote? Again, likely not. Their mental model and their identity is rigid (along with a bit of in group and tribalism) and they will very likely vote this way to the very end. You can live a better life by leaving while waiting for these voters to age out, because y…

They are obviously not voting for a better life for themselves. They are voting for a worse life for their perceived enemies. A huge number of voters would rather suffer if it means people they don't like will suffer even more.

There it is. And that cannot be solved for on timelines relevant to people who can leave.

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#179

Post by ponector »

jbstack wrote: post #150
lm28469 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lists all of the reasons why countries with taxes are nice to live in > concludes by: "it would be perfect if not for taxes" People wouldn't be as friendly and well educated if they went bankrupt when losing their jobs, getting a cancer, had to take $100k loans for uni, &c. the towns wouldn't be nice and clean if people didn't pay taxes for regular cleaning, ... There are very very few countries with low taxes and…

I guess my complaint was more about the type of taxes rather than the concept of taxes in general. Income tax I can accept: it's the price of entry to live in the place and enjoy its benefits. Even then there's plenty of room for debate between the extremes of "ultra-low / no tax" and "very high", but let's set that aside for now. But having a wealth tax with a very low threshold is something else entirely. It means…

2% is comparable to the property tax in USA.

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#180

Post by RickJWagner »

showerst wrote: post #20
justmedep wrote: post #4

Coming from Switzerland to the US: I do not want to leave. Everything is better here… maybe not for the average person but for some individuals.

That's the root of it, isn't it? America is pretty great if you're in the upper 20% or so, and otherwise it's losing ground fast.

I disagree.

Even poor people carry phones that have the internet, news, weather, and a million useful apps. Food is available to everyone, nearly every church has a food pantry. Even cheap houses are climate controlled. Even the homeless have shelters in most places.

For garden variety household emergencies, GoFundMe is democratized charity. It seems it often comes to the rescue for people suffering terrible luck.

Healthcare is expensive, but ACA makes it more available than before. Even early retirees get it.

Cars are expensive, too, but the get great mileage, better performance, and last longer than what we used to have.

Having grown up in the 6s and 70s, I can say with confidence that even less fortunate people have better lives than almost everybody 50 years ago. ( At least as far as material things go. )

The people who are unhappy are often comparing themselves to other people as portrayed by media and social media. That’s a sure way to feel you aren’t doing very well.

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