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Green card interviews end in handcuffs for spouses of U.S. citizens

nytimes.com

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Re: Green card interviews end in handcuffs for spouses of U.S. citizens

#171

Post by anon291 »

protocolture wrote: post #164
anon291 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this is immigration and there is no right to be in another country. I've been detained for irregularities in other countries while just doing tourism. This is a normal and expected part of travelling to foreign countries.

Theres no right to speed in your car or drop litter on the ground, but they attract less severe penalties.

Immigration is different because it needs to be addressed. For example, a tail light being out shouldn't result in jail time but it does need to result in the light being fixed.

With immigration, the issue that needs fixing is your presence in a country.

Look, I respect people who actually believe in free movement globally but most people claiming there's something wrong here don't believe in open borders.

Re: Green card interviews end in handcuffs for spouses of U.S. citizens

#172

Post by anon291 »

mktk1001 wrote: post #142
anon291 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this is immigration and there is no right to be in another country. I've been detained for irregularities in other countries while just doing tourism. This is a normal and expected part of travelling to foreign countries.

Detaining people based on their skin color is not normal anywhere except US

As an actual brown person, I was concerned about these laws being used to target people by skin color. However if you read the article, it's all about white European migrants being detained, so I think it's pretty clear that the law is not about brown people bad. Nice try though

Re: Green card interviews end in handcuffs for spouses of U.S. citizens

#173

Post by pandaman »

protocolture wrote: post #170
pandaman wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A rational relief for being in the country illegally is a removal of such an individual from the country. Same as if somebody enters your house and you don't want them there, you don't ask for a dollar a day or to clean up the dishes, do you? You ask them to leave and call police if they refuse. This is where detention comes into play: people who don't want to leave the country need to be detained before forcibly tra…

>A rational relief for being in the country illegally is a removal of such an individual from the country. Right, but immigration detention isnt that. >Same as if somebody enters your house and you don't want them there, you don't ask for a dollar a day or to clean up the dishes, do you? You ask them to leave and call police if they refuse. The house analogy is really weird and does not at all fit the realities of a…

It feels like you have some unique model of detention in your head (or mean something else than the common meaning of the word). The process is very simple - you are detained and then, when enough people are accumulated, they get loaded onto a bus/plane and removed from the country. Even if there was an abundance of buses and planes and every illegal alien would be loaded onto one immediately there would be still a detention to move him or her from the place where they were found to the bus or plane.

What you wrote only makes a faint sense in assumption that detention is given as a punishment for immigration violations as same as prison term. This does not happen in reality, detention is a necessary part of removing an alien who has no right to be in the country and not some kind of punishment, which you could serve and come out as a legal alien.

Re: Green card interviews end in handcuffs for spouses of U.S. citizens

#174

Post by protocolture »

pandaman wrote: post #173
protocolture wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A rational relief for being in the country illegally is a removal of such an individual from the country. Right, but immigration detention isnt that. >Same as if somebody enters your house and you don't want them there, you don't ask for a dollar a day or to clean up the dishes, do you? You ask them to leave and call police if they refuse. The house analogy is really weird and does not at all fit the realities of a…

It feels like you have some unique model of detention in your head (or mean something else than the common meaning of the word). The process is very simple - you are detained and then, when enough people are accumulated, they get loaded onto a bus/plane and removed from the country. Even if there was an abundance of buses and planes and every illegal alien would be loaded onto one immediately there would be still a d…

Detention is literally being used arbitrarily, before the decision is made to even determine the person is an alien. If something is uneccesary its usually being used as punishment.

>there would be still a detention to move him or her from the place where they were found to the bus or plane.

Whats wrong with a court order and a plane ticket? Other than nothing at all. (The usual response from the border brainrot is that either they need to be prevented from escaping, which they could have done earlier instead of choosing to remain a part of society. Then when that ones knocked down its as a "Deterrent" which is where we wrap back around to this being a punishment)

>What you wrote only makes a faint sense in assumption that detention is given as a punishment for immigration violations as same as prison term.

No I have not made that mistake at all.

>detention is a necessary part of removing an alien

Nope. No reason for it at all.

>which you could serve and come out as a legal alien.

Never said that at all. Just that theres no reason for someone to go into arbitrary detention before attending court/airport/border when they pose no risk to society. To do otherwise is a punishment.

Re: Green card interviews end in handcuffs for spouses of U.S. citizens

#175

Post by protocolture »

anon291 wrote: post #171
protocolture wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theres no right to speed in your car or drop litter on the ground, but they attract less severe penalties.

Immigration is different because it needs to be addressed. For example, a tail light being out shouldn't result in jail time but it does need to result in the light being fixed. With immigration, the issue that needs fixing is your presence in a country. Look, I respect people who actually believe in free movement globally but most people claiming there's something wrong here don't believe in open borders.

Why does it need to be addressed? Whats the pressing concern that makes immigration worse than a tail light?

Re: Green card interviews end in handcuffs for spouses of U.S. citizens

#176

Post by JuniperMesos »

sys_64738 wrote: post #95
4gotunameagain wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of professional and economic opportunity, sure, but in terms of quality of life half of the European countries eclipse the US.

That's entirely subjective for sure. The USA is a continent sized country and not a one-size-fits-all like most European countries. Each state should be viewed as its own European sized country with its own warts and all. You will have some backwater, inbred states like AL, MS and GA but places like CA or New England or NY are just eons above anything Europe has to offer. Again, it's all subjective.

California and New York are actually among the most inbred states, because they have the largest populations of recent Muslim immigrants, and cousin marriage is more prevalent in the Muslim world than it is in other places: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#/media/File:Gl... . There's not all that many Muslims in Alabama or Mississippi; Georgia has somewhat more, probably because of Atlanta's status as a major city that attracts sizeable numbers of immigrants.

Re: Green card interviews end in handcuffs for spouses of U.S. citizens

#177

Post by donkeybeer »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #151
jmyeet wrote: post #35

So this is a topic I follow and I could speak at length to all the anti-immigrant actions taken by this administration. It's every aspect of the immigration process. This isn't only a stricter enforcement policy or a stricter interpretation of certain rules but things that are arguably illegal. For example, one of the requirements for naturalization is "good moral chracter". Well, what does that mean? Up until this y…

#6 is false. His claims were not accurate, nor has there been any realistic demonstration of Israeli war crimes. The "proof" is always underwear gnome logic. Something bad happened, thus it must be an Israeli war crime.

Doesn't matter, it's just speech. If you want to say free speech doesn't apply to certain classes of persons then this should be made very loud and clear so these persons can avoid coming to the USA.

Re: Green card interviews end in handcuffs for spouses of U.S. citizens

#178

Post by [deleted] »

cherryteastain wrote: post #86
4gotunameagain wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of professional and economic opportunity, sure, but in terms of quality of life half of the European countries eclipse the US.

Countries like Denmark, Switzerland or Netherlands indeed offer very good quality of life but the language barrier is substantial. Tons of people know English as a second language and almost no one knows, say, Danish as a second language.

[deleted]

Re: Green card interviews end in handcuffs for spouses of U.S. citizens

#179

Post by vee-kay »

sys_64738 wrote: post #161
vee-kay wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthcare in USA is a nightmare, from almost every perspective. But a lot of countries like Canada, EU nations and other developed countries (and even in developing nations like India) have free or affordable healthcare systems. So, at least from a healthcare metric, most of these nations trump USA (pun intended, since Trump scrapped or crippled Obamacare, which itself wasn't a full-fledged solution to the healthcar…

Most of the countries with free healthcare are dying at the seams. Look at the NHS in England, you can't even get appointments as there are so few doctors. Operations take years to be done. In the USA you get ops real fast and doctors can be seen same day. Obamacare has only reset back to pre-COVID subsidies so it was always temporary the COVID subsidies, per the Inflation Reduction Act 2021.

> In the USA you get ops real fast and doctors can be seen same day.

IF the patient has Medical Insurance.

Only in the USA, medical insurance seems to be tied to employment. Non-employment driven medicare is unaffordable except for the filthy rich.

If someone is unemployed or poor, they won't be able to afford or get healthcare (not even for a toothache!) in the USA.

EU nations are struggling with state-sponsored Medicare because those are old systems that weren't improved with growing populations and the needs of modern times, and there are concerted efforts by Big Pharma to cripple and dismantle such free or affordable healthcare. NHS is under attack by Big Pharma is you read the news closely.

EU nations also made tne mistake of intaking thousands of "refugees" many of whom are still jobless and a constant drain on the nation's fragile Medicare system and social service subsidies.

Contrast this to countries like India which has lots of expert doctors and excellent hospitals, and free clinics and free healthcare for the poor. India also has state-sponsored pharmacies selling generics medicines that are extremely affordable substitutes for Big-Pharma-branded medicines.

e.g., A metal stent for a heart surgery in India costs a pittance compared to rest of the world. A dental root canal treatment costs around 5000 rupees (around $55). Foreigners visit India to get cheap (but high quality) Medicare (especially surgeries). One diabetic American I personally know gets his Insulin from India, because it is cheaper despite the shipping cost involved. There's a growing industry for "medical tourism" in India, as catered packages, wherein a foreigner needing surgery arrives with family to stay at a nice hotel, then gets timely appointment and surgery at a reputed hospital by skilled doctors, and then patient and family can recuperate at a nice holiday resort and partake in some local sightseeing as guided tours as part of the whole package.

I am not trying to belittle USA here, but even the staunchest American patriot will agree their healthcare system is under the crippling grip of Big Pharma and bad policies, and is anti-poor by design, and desperately needs an overhaul to become at par with the best healthcare systems in other developed nations. A closer look at America's neighbor Canada's healthcare system will be an eye opener on how to do healthcare better.

Re: Green card interviews end in handcuffs for spouses of U.S. citizens

#180

Post by pandaman »

protocolture wrote: post #174
pandaman wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like you have some unique model of detention in your head (or mean something else than the common meaning of the word). The process is very simple - you are detained and then, when enough people are accumulated, they get loaded onto a bus/plane and removed from the country. Even if there was an abundance of buses and planes and every illegal alien would be loaded onto one immediately there would be still a d…

Detention is literally being used arbitrarily, before the decision is made to even determine the person is an alien. If something is uneccesary its usually being used as punishment. >there would be still a detention to move him or her from the place where they were found to the bus or plane. Whats wrong with a court order and a plane ticket? Other than nothing at all. (The usual response from the border brainrot is t…

>Detention is literally being used arbitrarily, before the decision is made to even determine the person is an alien. If something is uneccesary its usually being used as punishment.

It is not. There has to be a reason to believe the person is an illegal alien. In this article, for example, all detainees presented documentation of their illegal presence and identified themselves with photo ID.

>Whats wrong with a court order and a plane ticket?

Someone already broke the law and is in the country illegally. What are the reasons for them to listen and follow a court order? Also, the immigration being a civil matter, how do you even obtain such an order? Sue them and go through a trial? There are already laws that allow removal of these aliens so this looks just like some redittor's wish-list in lieu of knowing the law.

>Nope. No reason for it at all.

Yeah, it seems that you don't see the reason. Can't explain something to somebody who is unwilling to understand.

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