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Claude Advanced Tool Use

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Re: Claude Advanced Tool Use

#171
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Woah woah woah, you’re ignoring a whole revenue stream caused by deliberately complicating the ecosystem, and then selling tools and consulting to “make it simpler”! Think of all the new yachts our mega-rich tech-bros could have by doing this!

my VS fork brings all the boys to the yard and they're like it's better than yours, damn right, it's better than yours

I can teach you, but I’ll have to charge

Re: Claude Advanced Tool Use

#172
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my VS fork brings all the boys to the yard and they're like it's better than yours, damn right, it's better than yours

This is the most creative comment I've read on HN as of late.

…don’t read many comments?

Re: Claude Advanced Tool Use

#173

I never really understood why you have to stuff all the tools in the context. Is there something wrong with having all your tools in, say, a markdown file, and having a subagent read it with a description of the problem at hand and returning just the tool needed at that moment? Is that what this tool search is?

> I never really understood why you have to stuff all the tools in the context.

You probably don't for... like, trivial cases?

...but, tool use is the most fine grained point, usually, in an agent's step-by-step implementation plan; So when planning, if you don't know what tool definitions exist, an agent might end up solving a problem naively step-by-step using primitive operations, when a single tool already exists that does that, or does part of it.

Like, it's not quite as simple as "Hey, do X"

It's more like: "Hey, make a plan to do X. When you're planning, first fetch a big list of the tools that seem vaguely related to the task and make a step-by-step plan keeping in mind the tools available to you"

...and then, for each step in the plan, you can do a tool search to find the best tool for x, then invoke it.

Without a top level context of the tools, or tool categories, I think you'll end up in some dead-ends with agents trying to use very low level tools to do high level tasks and just spinning.

The higher level your tool definitions are, the worse the problem is.

I've found this is the case even now with MCP, where sometimes you have to explicitly tell an agent to use particular tools, not to try to re-invent stuff or use bash commands.

Re: Claude Advanced Tool Use

#174

I never really understood why you have to stuff all the tools in the context. Is there something wrong with having all your tools in, say, a markdown file, and having a subagent read it with a description of the problem at hand and returning just the tool needed at that moment? Is that what this tool search is?

Claude is pretty good at totally disregarding most of what’s in your CLAUDE.md, so I’m not optimistic. For example a project I work on gives it specific scripts to run when it runs automated tests, because the project is set up in a way that requires some special things to happen before tests will work correctly. I’ve never once seen it actually call those scripts on the first try. It always tries to run them using t…

Claude is pretty good at forgetting to run maven with -am flag, writing bash with heredocs that it's interpreter doesn't weird out on, using the != operator in jq. Maybe Claude has early onset dementia.

Re: Claude Advanced Tool Use

#175
post #100

This is heading in the wrong direction. > The future of AI agents is one where models work seamlessly across hundreds or thousands of tools. Says who? I see it going the other way - less tools, better skills to apply those tools. To take it to an extreme, you could get by with ShellTool.

> less tools, better skills to apply those tools

All models have peaked (the velocity of progress is basically zero compared to previous years) -there are not going to be "better skills" (any time soon).

All these bubbled up corps(es) have to try to sell what they can, agent this, tool that, buzzword soup to keep the investors clueless one more year.

Re: Claude Advanced Tool Use

#176

Why don't they just train their models on a tools directory/marketplace? And use searching only for tools after the training cutoff.

Because training a model is expensive, takes a lot of time, and new models need to be evaluated.

But you are right: the trend to represent some helpers compactly so that they don't eat up much of your context window, that's all a workaround for a very real limitation: that fully-trained LLMs cannot meaningfully learn from new context and new data.

It's a bit like writing super-compact HOWTOs for all the tasks that employees ought to be able to do, instead of properly training new employees. There's a place for that, but it only gets you so far.

Re: Claude Advanced Tool Use

#177
> The script runs in the Code Execution tool (a sandboxed environment), pausing when it needs results from your tools. When you return tool results via the API, they're processed by the script rather than consumed by the model. The script continues executing, and Claude only sees the final output.

Anyone knows how they would have implemented the pause/resume functionality in the code execution sandbox? I can think of these: unikernels / Temporal / custom implementation of serializable continuations. Anything else?

Re: Claude Advanced Tool Use

#178
post #74

The Programmatic Tool Calling has been an obvious next step for a while. It is clear we are heading towards code as a language for LLMs so defining that language is very important. But I'm not convinced of tool search. Good context engineering leaves the tools you will need so adding a search if you are going to use all of them is just more overhead. What is needed is a more compact tool definition language like, I d…

Why exactly do we need a new language? The agents I write get access to a subset of the Python SDK (i.e. non-destructive), packages, and custom functions. All this ceremony around tools and pseudo-RPC seems pointless given LLMs are extremely capable of assembling code by themselves.

Does this "non destructive subset of python SDK" exist today, without needing to bring, say, a whole webassembly runtime?

I am hoping something like CEL (with verifiable runtime guarantees) but the syntax being a subset of Python.

Re: Claude Advanced Tool Use

#180

> The script runs in the Code Execution tool (a sandboxed environment), pausing when it needs results from your tools. When you return tool results via the API, they're processed by the script rather than consumed by the model. The script continues executing, and Claude only sees the final output. Anyone knows how they would have implemented the pause/resume functionality in the code execution sandbox? I can think of…

Presumably, a tool call is just a library call in the script. The implementation would need to ask the environment outside the sandbox (through a socket?) to take some action on its behalf.
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