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The disguised return of EU Chat Control

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171–180 of 354 posts

Re: The disguised return of EU Chat Control

#171

The "risk-mitigation" loophole in EU Chat Control uses the same vague, discretionary language in the Digital Services Act that Elon Musk and others warned lets regulators coerce platforms into censorship and surveillance. I think "oops" or "d'oh" are the phrases we're looking for here.

Elon Musk said just the truth about EU until now. Why did he do that, I don't care, but that's a fact.

Plus, when you see politicians react the way they did, it's like a code smell.

Re: The disguised return of EU Chat Control

#172
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That strain of libertarian rhetoric is overwhelmingly encountered on American-dominated fora. I won’t say it doesn’t exist in Europe, since Europeans can pick up on American internet culture, too, but it is too marginal in Europe to affect politics much. There is no significant libertarian party in the EU. Some of the far-right parties stoking and benefiting from popular discontent even promise to uphold the welfare…

Half of Europe has living memories of oppressive governments, from fascism in Franco's Spain to communism in East Europe.

[dead]

Re: The disguised return of EU Chat Control

#173
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

”2 There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right EXCEPT such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.” Are we r…

Mass surveillance has already been ruled to be in contravention of the Human Rights act: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_8_of_the_European_Conv... > A 2014 report to the UN General Assembly by the United Nations' top official for counter-terrorism and human rights condemned mass electronic surveillance as a clear violation of core privacy rights guaranteed by multiple treaties and conventions and makes a distin…

The loophole there is "targeted" so they'll declare that Son of Chat Control is to be targeted.

Re: The disguised return of EU Chat Control

#174
> to scan every private message, including those protected by end-to-end encryption.

Then it's no end to end, or at least end to end while traveling but easily collectible at rest, I mean it already is, who would stop meta from collecting messages in clear on the whatsapp ui? We should opt for a peer to peer solution or implement one

Re: The disguised return of EU Chat Control

#175
post #172
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half of Europe has living memories of oppressive governments, from fascism in Franco's Spain to communism in East Europe.

[dead]

Perhaps, or perhaps not, but its now a democracy, not a fascist dictatorship.

Re: The disguised return of EU Chat Control

#176
post #53

The right to privacy is enshrined in the European Convention on Human Rights, article 8 [0]. It escapes me how politicians can repeatedly attempt to violate this. [0] https://fra.europa.eu/en/law-reference/european-convention-h...

”2 There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right EXCEPT such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.” Are we r…

The way it's written and the way ECHR court works, the government has to actually argue it's way, not just say "national secirity".

ECHR court however can't repeal the law, only fine the governmemt for actual violation of convention rights.

Re: The disguised return of EU Chat Control

#177
post #175
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[dead]

Perhaps, or perhaps not, but its now a democracy, not a fascist dictatorship.

Cool, but it's anything but libertarian, which is what we were discussing in this thread.

Regarding democracy, we have pretty severe failings, which you won't hear about because the EU is busy with Poland/Hungary/other conservative countries.

Re: The disguised return of EU Chat Control

#178
post #53

The right to privacy is enshrined in the European Convention on Human Rights, article 8 [0]. It escapes me how politicians can repeatedly attempt to violate this. [0] https://fra.europa.eu/en/law-reference/european-convention-h...

Think of the children. You want the police to solve crimes, right? If you are against this it is because you have something to hide. Also it is more than possible that those politicians do not agree with that Convention.

Wow, it’s always crazy how the folks who have nothing to hide get mad when the lock on the stall door in a public bathroom doesn’t work…

Re: The disguised return of EU Chat Control

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

”2 There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right EXCEPT such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.” Are we r…

The way it's written and the way ECHR court works, the government has to actually argue it's way, not just say "national secirity". ECHR court however can't repeal the law, only fine the governmemt for actual violation of convention rights.

Is there any mechanism for preventing the introduction of a law that violates the ECHR? It would seem obvious that that should be the case, no?
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