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GNOME 50 completes the migration to Wayland, dropping X11 backend code

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Re: GNOME 50 completes the migration to Wayland, dropping X11 backend code

#171

Post by ColonelPhantom »

mx7zysuj4xew wrote: post #153
ColonelPhantom wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fair! I believe that window positioning also works on XWayland, though, so running your file manager that way should still work with the rest of the system being Wayland (and Gnome has no plans to drop XWayland afaik). I believe the main holdup is a desire for Wayland to be usable with e.g. VR interfaces where there is no simple 2d grid. Out of curiosity, how do you want the file manager to behave? And did you…

The only file managers that run on Wayland are the weird "flat" kind with "is" that prevent you from doing anything that didn't match their poorly conceived use cases

I have no idea what you are saying (with "is"??), but I don't think this is true: KDE Dolphin is very full-featured and runs natively on Wayland.

Re: GNOME 50 completes the migration to Wayland, dropping X11 backend code

#172

Post by Paianni »

mx7zysuj4xew wrote: post #154
pjmlp wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wayland was created by X11 developers, as they decided keeping X11 going was beyond hope. Feel free to find volunteers to fulfill their shoes.

They weren't "developers" more like a Jr intern asked to do some minor maintenance The real work was done in the 80s/90s through a consortium of universities and corporations Then one day, some nobody shows up and in their infinite wisdom decides: I know better than all the 100s of people before me. And now we have to listen on and on about how this nobody was somehow a "major developer"

The work done in the 80s and 90s was for very different hardware than now, when accelerated graphics wasn't the norm. MS made that mandatory with Aero and then Windows 8 a long time ago, Apple's been at it for even longer.

Wayland exists because, thanks to hardware innovations, there's a better way to do the job than what was possible in the 80s.

Re: GNOME 50 completes the migration to Wayland, dropping X11 backend code

#173

Post by kasabali »

bjourne wrote: post #21

Sadly, I recently had to switch back from Wayland to xorg because clients are getting so memory hungry. My eight year old gpu only has 2gb of vram, which I constantly run out of. Some part of the gfx stack should handle swapping out vram to main ram but it apparently isn't.

Is it an Nvidia?

Re: GNOME 50 completes the migration to Wayland, dropping X11 backend code

#174

Post by StopDisinfo910 »

aweiher wrote: post #149
Gigachad wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nvidia GPU? Their drivers have been broken on Linux for a long time now. I've had no bugs on my steam deck or on asahi linux with wayland.

Are simple things like screensharing working now, without crashing in the worst possible moments?

I was under the impression that PipeWire fixed all issues with both screen sharing and desktop audio when it was introduced years ago.

Re: GNOME 50 completes the migration to Wayland, dropping X11 backend code

#175

Post by StopDisinfo910 »

rich_sasha wrote: post #94

I love Linux and vastly prefer it to Windows, but whenever people tell me Linux is vastly more stable than Windows, I think of the whol X11/Wayland saga. I still scarcely know what these are. In fact I actively don't want to know about compositors and whatnot. When I want GUIs, I just want to see them. I can list many crappinesses of Windows, but stuff like this kinda just works.

I mean if you are a normal user and most people are, you absolutely do not need to care about both Wayland and X11. Distributions ship with working configurations. It just works.

Most of the people complaining about the transition just like to nitpick about low level pieces of technology which don’t actually impact their usage at all. It was the same with systemd for at least a decade.

Re: GNOME 50 completes the migration to Wayland, dropping X11 backend code

#176

Post by StopDisinfo910 »

szszrk wrote: post #30

Transition to Wayland opened so many user experience regressions. Many are solved today, or at least partially solved but... There is still no possibility to have proper remote sessions when using Wayland. On any Window Manager and any distro. It's such a shitshow when you go into details. Nothing works, including third party tools (like NoMachine) and I could find no real hope for actual solutions being designed. Th…

In Gnome, the option is in Settings -> System -> Remote Desktop.

You can enable the rdp server there. It does allow opening new sessions remotely. It works fine.

Re: GNOME 50 completes the migration to Wayland, dropping X11 backend code

#177

Post by akagusu »

Paianni wrote: post #172
mx7zysuj4xew wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They weren't "developers" more like a Jr intern asked to do some minor maintenance The real work was done in the 80s/90s through a consortium of universities and corporations Then one day, some nobody shows up and in their infinite wisdom decides: I know better than all the 100s of people before me. And now we have to listen on and on about how this nobody was somehow a "major developer"

The work done in the 80s and 90s was for very different hardware than now, when accelerated graphics wasn't the norm. MS made that mandatory with Aero and then Windows 8 a long time ago, Apple's been at it for even longer. Wayland exists because, thanks to hardware innovations, there's a better way to do the job than what was possible in the 80s.

  >> Wayland exists because, thanks to hardware innovations, there's a better way to do the job than what was possible in the 80s.
Unfortunately Wayland is not a better way.

Re: GNOME 50 completes the migration to Wayland, dropping X11 backend code

#178

Post by user3939382 »

api wrote: post #80
jasonvorhe wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What nonsense, especially if framed in a such an absolutist way leaving no room for nuance. Millions of people are storing their data on self hosted or 3rd party run managed OSS services on multiple platforms. Sure, it is not all perfect, UX might be an issue here and there but compared to having to relearn using some proprietary app redesign every other year because some Product Manager needed a promotion, a lot of…

> Millions of people are storing their data on self hosted or 3rd party run managed OSS services on multiple platforms. That's open source being used by developers to provide a closed service to users. Users experience it as an opaque closed service. SaaS backed by open source is actually the most closed model of software, more closed than closed-source software run locally.

That’s because of extractive economics from tech not because of any failure or weakness of open source. If tech economy was in equilibrium open source would be massively popular. Polished alternatives are subsidies by extraction economics.

Re: GNOME 50 completes the migration to Wayland, dropping X11 backend code

#179

Post by Doxin »

w4rh4wk5 wrote: post #6

Does this mean we finally get proper drag-n-drop support back? [1] [1] https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/file-roller/-/issues/4

Is that why that broke? I've got more than a few expletives on the tip of my tongue right about now.

Re: GNOME 50 completes the migration to Wayland, dropping X11 backend code

#180

Post by szszrk »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #91
szszrk wrote: post #30

Transition to Wayland opened so many user experience regressions. Many are solved today, or at least partially solved but... There is still no possibility to have proper remote sessions when using Wayland. On any Window Manager and any distro. It's such a shitshow when you go into details. Nothing works, including third party tools (like NoMachine) and I could find no real hope for actual solutions being designed. Th…

Kde's new Plasma Login Manager / Plasma Login (backend/frontend) have been coming along nicely (replacing sddm), and include remote login support. Just announced this past spring but very active. https://blog.davidedmundson.co.uk/blog/a-roadmap-for-a-moder...

That's exactly what I was talking about before. Tried on newest fedora but that simply isn't it. It's remote support to an existing session. Names are misleading.
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