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European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

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Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#171

Post by jacquesm »

barbazoo wrote: post #41
usrnm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The damage to our future world order I don't think "damage" is the right word, especially outside of the US. Changes aren't necessarily bad, and, as someone living in the EU, I actually like the current trend.

Same here. I’m not scared of China either and am excited for them to take more responsibility on the international stage. Hopefully US warmongering will come to an end too.

We already made that mistake with Russia. First we give them a ton of money and then when they think they're rich enough for a landgrab they go to war. Russia has gone through four such cycles since the 90's.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#172

Post by remarkEon »

eduction wrote: post #44
jacquesm wrote: post #2

There will be a lot more decisions like this one. For the war in Ukraine and anything immediate they will buy American stuff if there is no EU alternative (and for many things there just isn't right now, there are too many dependencies). But the tide has changed, for 'in' it is now to 'out'. It is abundantly clear the USA is no longer a dependable ally, and that it will use all kinds of strings attached to hobble wha…

> It is abundantly clear the USA is no longer a dependable ally An extreme and inaccurate statement. The US is still party to NATO Article 5, meaning the blood of our young people is pledged to be shed to defend, say, Estonia. That has not changed. What has changed is the US has become more realistic and up front about the limitations of its reduced military. It’s not healthy, for the US /or/ Europe, to indulge the i…

The unspoken truth here is that there are inner and outer members of the NATO core. Estonia, I’m sorry to say, is not a country the United States would go to WWIII over. The core members of Germany, France, Poland, Italy, and possibly the Uk remain. Followed by a few others, and then there’s the rest where if Russia invaded journalists across the eastern seaboard would furiously rush to Chat GPT to find out where it is on the map.

All that aside, and regardless of your views on this administration’s posture toward NATO, Europe needs to revitalize its defense industry as there’s been a much remarked on free rider problem for a while. Robert Gates made a now infamous speech about this problem on his way out of office as secretary of defense.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#173

Post by jacquesm »

philwelch wrote: post #84
jacquesm wrote: post #2

There will be a lot more decisions like this one. For the war in Ukraine and anything immediate they will buy American stuff if there is no EU alternative (and for many things there just isn't right now, there are too many dependencies). But the tide has changed, for 'in' it is now to 'out'. It is abundantly clear the USA is no longer a dependable ally, and that it will use all kinds of strings attached to hobble wha…

> It is abundantly clear the USA is no longer a dependable ally, and that it will use all kinds of strings attached to hobble what they sell to be able to exert political pressure. This isn’t a US-only problem, and if anything the US has been more reliable on this account than some major European countries. For instance, in the first several months of the war Germany actually prohibited other countries from exporting…

That's a borderline whataboutism statement. Yes, Germany could have done a lot better. But at least they're not actively trying to sabotage NATO, they're not threatening to invade allies and they're not bombing other countries just because they can.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#174

Post by toomuchtodo »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #159
toomuchtodo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China needs Europe to support its export economy because there will never be enough domestic demand to prevent a deflationary spiral. Europe is a rational actor China can expect to act rationally in trade, and Europe can benefit from that. The US has nothing to offer Europe except LNG that Europe cannot produce itself, or obtain from China at better price or quality. Canada has ~200 years of LNG reserves and can ship…

> The US has nothing to offer Europe except LNG that Europe cannot produce itself, or obtain from China at better price or quality. Canada has ~200 years of LNG reserves and can ship to Europe from LNG Canada. This line here makes it clear to me you've never really researched any of this. Canada doesn't have the ability to export that to anywhere but the USA and refuses to even consider building another pipeline.

https://www.shell.com/news-and-insights/our-stories/lng-cana... ("July 1, 2025: With production underway in Kitimat on Canada’s west coast, LNG Canada connects natural gas from British Columbia to Asian markets. Explore the project with our interactive map, read about the extraordinary engineering behind LNG Canada, and watch the videos to learn more about LNG.")

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNG_Canada

https://www.gem.wiki/LNG_Canada_Terminal

https://www.lngcanada.ca/

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43322266

https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/facilities-we-reg...

https://www.politico.eu/article/canada-lng-europe-tim-hodgso...

(commodity market participant)

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#175

Post by jmye »

saubeidl wrote: post #81
Yokolos wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I'm sure all the countries around China are really excited and looking forward to this. Oh, wait ... It's the same shit with the Baltic states and other former Soviet satellite states. They're terrified of Russia, but people in Germany or further West think it's all overblown propaganda and there's nothing to fear from Russia. You being ignorant doesn't mean there aren't real issues and real, justified fears.

The thing is - the Baltic states are in our sphere of influence, so Russia messing with them is a problem for us. Tell me why we should care about some island on the other end of the world. It would make sense to begrudgingly accept it, just like we did US military adventures in South America.

> Tell me why we should care about some island on the other end of the world.

I mean, if we're talking about Taiwan, it has strategic and commercial importance above and beyond being "some island". Certainly more than Central America ever did when the rest of the world was ignoring the US's idiotic anti-Communist adventures. Pretending that it's irrelevant because it's far away seems like a pretty big economic misunderstanding, at the least.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#176

Post by jmye »

torginus wrote: post #111
jacquesm wrote: post #2

There will be a lot more decisions like this one. For the war in Ukraine and anything immediate they will buy American stuff if there is no EU alternative (and for many things there just isn't right now, there are too many dependencies). But the tide has changed, for 'in' it is now to 'out'. It is abundantly clear the USA is no longer a dependable ally, and that it will use all kinds of strings attached to hobble wha…

And weirdly enough, most of the sanctions have been softened, or rolled back - there's been little effort on the US side to build up domestic production capability outside of semiconductors - a process that began well under the Biden admin. Another curious thing is despite how the US has been acting in this manner, their stock market still continues to outperform everybody else's Turns out even if you have as much po…

> Another curious thing is despite how the US has been acting in this manner, their stock market still continues to outperform everybody else's

Only a tiny fraction of the S&P is performing, and it's because it's either part of the AI bubble or because people have memed extreme value into poorly run companies that now have absolutely insane EPS numbers. There's nothing about the US stock market that's even slightly connected to it's financial or economic performance, right now.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#177

Post by walletdrainer »

jleyank wrote: post #151
walletdrainer wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

F35 has far better bvr capabilities than the eurofighter and in practice ends up being far more useful in the air superiority role. Eurofighter is really only good for peacetime patrols, the F35 will detect and shoot down enemies in real conflict far before the Eurofighter can do anything. In a bizarre hypothetical conflict you would certainly not want to engage a F35 in an Eurofighter, the Eurofighter would be knock…

One would hope, as the Eurofighter is a 20-year-old design. There are older fighters that serve their purposes quite well, but the F35 will end up being compared against fighters yet to appear. And I wonder whether any of these birds will be effective during the day in a modern battlefield before the missile and radar systems are taken out.

Against Russia? Why not.

Against China? If you’re willing to accept a level of losses we haven’t seen since WW2, but that’s just the nature of peer to peer warfare.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#178

Post by poszlem »

ambicapter wrote: post #163
poszlem wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I firmly believe people are deluding themselves if they think that without US patronage, Europe wouldn't devolve into its historical norm, a state of internal warfare. The popular narrative suggests a 'United States of Europe' is forming, but this seems like propaganda when you look at the reality, nations are already returning to the historical status quo, prioritizing their own agendas and pulling in separate direc…

What is the mechanism through which "US patronage" prevents Europe from internally warring with each other?

Prosperity.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#179

Post by paganel »

jacquesm wrote: post #167
paganel wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m Romanian, write this comment from Bucharest, a lot closer to Donbass than both France and UK. If those guys are “disgusted” about Russia then it’s their choice, but they shouldn’t re-create the Crimean War and battle the Russians on our (Romania’s) soil, with the destruction that would accompany such a war. If anything, I’d rather actively choose Russia’s side on this against the West, at least Russia is the devi…

This is a delusional position. > If anything, I’d rather actively choose Russia’s side on this against the West Based on your comment history, you have already done so. You've been carrying water for Russia on HN for the longest time. > at least Russia is the devil we know Apparently, you don't know. You think you know. Romania could be the Switzerland of Eastern Europe, but it is this mentality that stops that from…

> Based on your comment history, you have already done so. You've been carrying water for Russia on HN for the longest time.

I'm talking physically, for better or for worse that is still not the case. I don't want to see Romanian men (which would include me) leaving their (our, in fact) bones on the Ukrainian steppe up to the Volga, once was enough.

> Apparently, you don't know. You think you know. Romania could be the Switzerland of Eastern Europe,

Yes, I do know, and yes, and I am completely and utterly annoyed by Westerners lecturing us on our geo-strategic future.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#180

Post by paganel »

jacquesm wrote: post #168
mongol wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This surprises me. Is that how you see it, that countries like UK and France may choose to battle Russia on your soil? What would forego that in your scenario?

He would like to roll over to see Romania rejoin the new Russian empire. Click on username then comments and be amazed.

What's to be amazed about it? If I remember right you're from somewhere in the Low Countries, correct? Which means your country hasn't been part of a big land-war since the mid-1600s, give or take.

As I mentioned in another comment, I don't want to see us, Romanians, fight the West's wars anymore (like we fought Germany's war in the 1940s), I don't want for my grand-kids to tell their kids how their grandad barely managed to stay alive thanks to some Russian peasants close to Krasnodar who brought him (me) in their home in the middle of the Russian winter, i.e. the same story that has been actually directly experienced by a person close to me (now dead, of course, as are most of the WW2 veterans) on his way back from just outside Stalingrad.

Again, I don't want for my country, Romania, to be the West's sacrificial lamb for West's interests anymore, once was enough. And you should keep your pontificating for yourself, because you Dutch colonialists didn't fight sh*t on the steppes of Southern Russia / Southern Ukraine so you don't know s*it when it comes to fighting Russia in a great land-war, you were too busy, first, getting your asses kicked by the Japanese, and second, cutting the hands off of the Indonesian freedom fighters.

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