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ICC ditches Microsoft 365 for openDesk

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Re: ICC ditches Microsoft 365 for openDesk

#171

Post by bawolff »

vladms wrote: post #62
bawolff wrote: post #16

I think the bigger question is why they were using microsoft products in the first place. USA has been very hostile to the ICC under trump, but its not exactly a huge shift, bush was also incredibly hostile. It seems borderline incompetent to use a microsoft cloud offering given the political situation. Not to mention given the type of work they do, seems like hosting stuff off site at all is a bad plan.

How much do you think they should spend on IT to be independent from Microsoft (serious question) ? Wikipedia mentions they employ 800 persons working in several buildings and a detention center for a budget of 141 million USD. Microsoft O365 Business Premium per person is 22 USD per month so total per year is ~200k USD (online price, I imagine they can negotiate a bit for that amount of people).

I think its a core requirement of their mission, so essentially whatever is neccesary.

Their job is to investigate war criminal despite the usa trying to block them. Its not out of the question that nsa/cia/etc would use their ties at microsoft to try and get an advanced peek at the prosecution's case.

Yes all this is expensive. Their mission is not a cheap one. Doing it right costs money.

P.s. initially i mistead and got a laugh out of the idea of wikipedia operating a detention center.

Re: ICC ditches Microsoft 365 for openDesk

#172

Post by bawolff »

lysace wrote: post #72
tharne wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this comment ^ was made in bad faith. Providing an accurate description of reality is not an endorsement of that reality, but I'm pretty sure you already know this, and your comment here is more of a rhetorical tool than an addition to the discussion.

Okay, I will spell it out: You are confusing might with right.

> Okay, I will spell it out: You are confusing might with right.

You are confusing describing the world with how it is and describing how it ought to be.

Might does tend to make right in geopolitics if you are a super power. That doesn't mean i like it, or think that it is right, its just the world we currently live in is.

Re: ICC ditches Microsoft 365 for openDesk

#173

Post by stephen_g »

jacquesm wrote: post #153
fxtentacle wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it fascinating to see how much power Germany's "digital sovereignty" initiative has gained. In the beginning, it looked like yet another government thingy that nobody will use. But by now, they must be well above 100k government employees using it daily. Also, in case you missed that: StackIt is the AWS / G Cloud competitor by LIDL: https://www.stackit.de/en/ It's the basebone for their app strategy with 100 m…

Every time this happens Microsoft either threatens to move out or promises to move in with a chunk of their operation. Blackmailing with jobs has been very effective for them.

I think that strategy might be running out of steam though, before these projects seemed to have more commercial reasons or just pushing the idea of openness, but sovereignty is a much stronger ideal and much more likely to be the one that will weather the blackmail.

Re: ICC ditches Microsoft 365 for openDesk

#174

Post by bawolff »

tharne wrote: post #60
lysace wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA has been very hostile to the ICC since way before Trump. The ICC was created in 1998 when Bill Clinton was president of the USA. He never ratified the Rome treaty. And then GW, Obama, Trump and Biden didn't either. Very few americans batted an eye as far as I could tell. Your are after all by definition exceptional. (/s)

This is not a U.S. specific issue. Once you strip away all of the formalities, titles, and ceremonies, you'll realize there's no such thing as international law, at least not in any meaningful sense of the word. The law, by definition is a rule backed up by the use of force, specifically state-sanctioned violence. If you write a law but do not have the ability to use a sufficient amount violence to enforce it when ne…

> The only way you could ever have anything resembling "international law", would be to have some sort of global military or police force capable of exerting enough violence to ensure that the law is followed, and I'm not even sure how such a thing would work.

I'd push back a little bit on this. Much international law is just based on recipricol alturism. Chemical weapons are illegal. Why? Because they are a pain, and it sucks for both sides when they are used, so both sides have an interest in banning them.

I know its a hard cry from hard enforcement (to be clear hard enforcement does happen sometimes. E.g. UN interventions or even the ICC), but soft power is not nothing.

Its more like the sort of thing like how if you are a rude party guest you dont get invited to the. Sure its not the same as cops. At the same time most party guests are reasonably polite as a result of this pressure.

I know its not much, but i dont think we should count this out either.

Re: ICC ditches Microsoft 365 for openDesk

#176

Post by dylan604 »

jacquesm wrote: post #152

Rightly so. They should have never used it in the first place. What with the US not recognizing the court it always made very little sense to me that they would rely on the infrastructure components to be supplied by the USA. The latest sanctions are just another step in something that was already in motion from day #1. The world order at the highest level relies on the nations themselves to behave, especially the la…

> To USA not recognizing the court has always shown that they don't care about the crimes they commit.

I'd nitpick the "don't care" part. To me, it's that they do care precisely because they know they are guilty. I think Trump is guilty for the boats being shot. Obama guilty for the drone strikes. W guilty for well, the whole shit show. Didn't really pay attention to Biden, but I'd assume drone strikes continued there too. From Clinton on back, I admit I just wasn't paying attention to those kinds of issues.

Re: ICC ditches Microsoft 365 for openDesk

#177

Post by aidenn0 »

dylan604 wrote: post #176
jacquesm wrote: post #152

Rightly so. They should have never used it in the first place. What with the US not recognizing the court it always made very little sense to me that they would rely on the infrastructure components to be supplied by the USA. The latest sanctions are just another step in something that was already in motion from day #1. The world order at the highest level relies on the nations themselves to behave, especially the la…

> To USA not recognizing the court has always shown that they don't care about the crimes they commit. I'd nitpick the "don't care" part. To me, it's that they do care precisely because they know they are guilty. I think Trump is guilty for the boats being shot. Obama guilty for the drone strikes. W guilty for well, the whole shit show. Didn't really pay attention to Biden, but I'd assume drone strikes continued ther…

My understanding is that most of the post-cold-war targeted killings of dubious legality happened after 9/11; wikipedia claims that there were US norms against "targeted killings" from '76 to '01. Certainly the CIA did some shady stuff post 1976, but the President at least maintained the appearance of not knowing about them.

Re: ICC ditches Microsoft 365 for openDesk

#178

Post by ebbi »

dylan604 wrote: post #176
jacquesm wrote: post #152

Rightly so. They should have never used it in the first place. What with the US not recognizing the court it always made very little sense to me that they would rely on the infrastructure components to be supplied by the USA. The latest sanctions are just another step in something that was already in motion from day #1. The world order at the highest level relies on the nations themselves to behave, especially the la…

> To USA not recognizing the court has always shown that they don't care about the crimes they commit. I'd nitpick the "don't care" part. To me, it's that they do care precisely because they know they are guilty. I think Trump is guilty for the boats being shot. Obama guilty for the drone strikes. W guilty for well, the whole shit show. Didn't really pay attention to Biden, but I'd assume drone strikes continued ther…

[flagged]

Re: ICC ditches Microsoft 365 for openDesk

#180

Post by Theodores »

mikestew wrote: post #128
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a lawyer who was forced off Word Perfect My lawyers at big firms still use it, though they export .doc(x).

But how are they exporting such a modern document format? Holee crap, because it's still being sold an updated! https://www.wordperfect.com/en/ And the suite includes Quattro Pro, for those that are itchin' for that spreadsheet-flavored blast from the past. If I didn't already have the Apple suite on my Mac (which does all I need out of an office suite), I'd spend the $50 for home/student version just for the lulz.

You have got the trial version of Wordperfect for free, not sure it has everything (Quattro Pro) since you have to hunt around for other Corel products to get the trial versions (Corel Draw).

It is amazing to think how valuable Wordperfect originally was, for Microsoft to be mean to them, meaning they went from worth billions to worth nothing.

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