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Ground stop at JFK due to staffing

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Re: Ground stop at JFK due to staffing

#171

Post by collingreen »

SlightlyLeftPad wrote: post #111
yndoendo wrote: post #12

Who knew electing shitty representation leads to a shitty environment and economy? I wish those effected by the shitty government the best Forcing people to work and not pay them is slavery!

It is a failed state, and we have seemingly overnight given Russia and China the biggest beautiful gift they could have asked for. Our military is over extended, science has been flipped over and defunded, and that alone will settle it. Now add unreasonable volatility from tariffs, and wait, give it time, wait some more until it’s impossible to unwind, then if we’re not in a major war, economy crashes, chaos ensues.

Mix in telling people the news is the enemy of the state and everything bad is because of their neighbors and you have quite a lot of opportunity for chaos.

Re: Ground stop at JFK due to staffing

#172

Post by ipython »

thephyber wrote: post #136
ipython wrote: post #30

My concern is that we will end up in a state of perpetual government "shutdown". The republicans, instead of reopening the entire government, will simply choose agencies to fund in order to keep the pain felt by the American people just low enough so they don't get fired (ala office space). Once that happens, Congress has basically iced itself out. Oversight from unfriendly government agencies? No worries, they're sh…

I suspect this shutdown will last a while, but I don’t think Republicans will have enough votes to open anything without Democrat buy-in. R needs 20% of the Ds to vote for R bills to get anything budget-changing passed (except the 1 Reconciliation per year that only requires a simple majority). Short of Dems feeling some insane pressure (eg. Military threats or somehow defunding of core government tasks like police,…

My point is that they won’t feel the need to ever “officially” re open the government.

Re: Ground stop at JFK due to staffing

#173

Post by evilduck »

shadowgovt wrote: post #64
gruez wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is this enshrined in a statute somewhere? Feels like adding air traffic controllers to that list should be a no-brainer (and broadly politically popular). They are considered essential. That means they have to work, but not be paid. https://time.com/7329683/government-shutdown-flight-delays-c...

So what happens if they don't show up? Are they at risk of jail or at risk of being fired and replaced by the new recruit, Michael McDoesnt-Exist ( https://www.aviationtoday.com/2025/07/25/americas-atc-meltdo... )?

Nothing happens to them. They can't be jailed for taking their PTO or sick leave, they are free to quit and there are not enough recruits in the pipeline to backfill them en masse. They could be put on a PIP, or fired for not showing up, or some other retaliatory and childish Trump action, but what is the government realistically going to do to fix this? Fire them for poor performance and make sure that a short term shortage becomes permanent? How do you even recruit backfills when the entire world knows you fucked over the previous crew and promise to do it to the next batch too?

Re: Ground stop at JFK due to staffing

#174

Post by o11c »

gruez wrote: post #16
johncolanduoni wrote: post #8

The things that are and aren’t considered essential enough to fund during a government shutdown are insane. Is this enshrined in a statute somewhere? Feels like adding air traffic controllers to that list should be a no-brainer (and broadly politically popular).

>Is this enshrined in a statute somewhere? Feels like adding air traffic controllers to that list should be a no-brainer (and broadly politically popular). They are considered essential. That means they have to work, but not be paid. https://time.com/7329683/government-shutdown-flight-delays-c...

Today in "blatant constitutional violations specified by law" ...

Re: Ground stop at JFK due to staffing

#175

Post by chris_va »

andreybaskov wrote: post #6

I once landed a GA airplane in a very busy uncontrolled class C airport that closed its tower at 4pm due to staff shortage, but was still operational. Since then I have a tremendous respect for aviation resilience to any single point failure. I imaging having entire JFK on CTAF isn't an option though.

This is Alaska 37, wings up turning base over Coney Island...

Re: Ground stop at JFK due to staffing

#176

Post by o11c »

greedo wrote: post #154
o11c wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, it's time to look into seeing how recall elections work in various states. "Our legally elected representative directly refuses to represent us" should be plenty of grounds.

The Constitution forbids states from recalling Congressional representatives.

Which part?

Re: Ground stop at JFK due to staffing

#177

Post by collingreen »

hshdhdhehd wrote: post #112
zermelo wrote: post #40

To most of the commentators saying "why work when you're not getting paid", please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't federal employees not paid during a government shutdown getting retroactive pay once funding has been restored?

Why work in current job when you cant pay your rent today. Why not get a different job so you can.

Just mozy on down to the job orchard and pick off a new job from the ATC career tree!

Re: Ground stop at JFK due to staffing

#178

Post by [deleted] »

mindslight wrote: post #169
collingreen wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The third time will totally be different guys!

It's one of the very few remaining in-system ways for the Constitutional US Government to continue existing. So yes, I would say it's worth banging that drum again. Maybe Susan Collins has even learned a lesson of her own.

[deleted]

Re: Ground stop at JFK due to staffing

#179

Post by lamontcg »

donmcronald wrote: post #86
ares623 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speed running to become an actual developing nation. This is what millions of migrants are trying to escape from. Ironic, for all parties involved (well, except for the ones on top of course)

> Speed running to become an actual developing nation. That's what it looks like from the outside, but I can't understand what the gain is. Who benefits? The result of the middle class was massive advancement and an equally massive increase in standard of living for the wealthy who captured most of the gains. What do they gain from stagnating innovation and a lack of education, services, etc.? It makes me think of th…

The ridiculously wealthy view the system as a strictly zero-sum game, and they want to keep everything they have, and deny the rest of the population of everything. They understand this isn't sustainable, so they're fortifying bunkers and buying up islands.

The days of Henry Ford capitalists who think their workers should be paid enough to buy their products seems to be unfashionable (even though he was a Nazi supporting racist, he had his head screwed on better than they do).

The end game of full on narcissistic capitalism is coming. Hopefully the Henry Ford types wake the fuck up and do something about their peers losing the fucking plot entirely.

Re: Ground stop at JFK due to staffing

#180

Post by zermelo »

eszed wrote: post #163
zermelo wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/24 Passed by Congress in January 2019 and signed by Trump. " Employees furloughed as a result of a lapse in appropriations shall be compensated for the period of the lapse on the earliest date possible after the lapse ends, regardless of scheduled pay dates. "

"Furloughed" is the key term, there. Have they been?

My understanding:

* excepted (essential) employees (including ATCs) are required to work, are not getting paid, but will be paid back for their work when Congress passes a new appropriations bill

* furloughed (non-essential) employees are told not to work, are not getting paid, but will be paid back under GEFTA once the shutdown ends, without any new law.

To be clear, I'm trying to state the facts, not my opinions.

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