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Some people can't see mental images

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Re: Some people can't see mental images

#171

Post by abetusk »

mnmalst wrote: post #141
abetusk wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I often don't realize I'm asleep and dreaming while I dream. It's a common experience for me to dream and think I'm experiencing reality while I'm asleep. Are you saying you have never had a visual dream? Sometimes when I'm close to sleep or when I'm lucid dreaming, I can visualize things with good fidelity. While I'm awake, I'm almost completely unable to.

Interesting! I experience visual dreams the same way I described imagining the environment when I read. It's a completely different experience than seeing with my eyes open.

Interesting. So it sounds like you don't even dream visually.

I think for many people, even people with aphantasia, dreaming is akin to watching a movie or actually experiencing the event (myself included). I know the experience is immersive because it's the same feeling as watching a movie, but I can't recall it visually the same way after the fact, while I'm awake.

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#172

Post by swores »

pessimizer wrote: post #157
swores wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I understand this will be downvoted by people who have their self-image tied up in this, or synesthesia, or any number of untestable hypothetical mental states that are painted as mysterious superpowers. FYI, I don't have any part of my self image related to any of this sort of thing (I never think about it except when it comes up in discussions like this, during which I briefly find it a bit interesting and then f…

> you're being confident to the point of cockiness yet talking absolute rubbish. Profound. I'm convinced. Ever consider speaking to the argument, or is this just easier? > So please don't assume there's some biased reason behind every downvote you get for that comment, at least some of us just think you're completely wrong. I'm guessing from the comment that you self-describe in this way? If so, why in the world woul…

I obviously wasn't trying to change your mind on the main subject, since I didn't make a single argument about it. I don't have an obligation to try to explain why I think you're wrong, and I don't understand the subject well enough to be the right person to do so.

I was solely addressing your bullshit attempt to dismiss any downvotes as being people defending their own self images, by pointing out that I downvoted you without that being even slightly the reason. I used to think that what you believe was quite likely the case, and that people just have different ways of describing it, and if scientists were to prove that is indeed the case I'd be perfectly happy to change my mind again, I couldn't give a shit other than being curious to know the truth. Whether or not I can visualise things more or less than the next person is no more an important part of my self image than the exact number of hairs on my left leg is - it technically does make up a part of who I am, but not a part I'd ever bother thinking about if thinking about the subject of "me".

> "I'm guessing from the comment that you self-describe in this way?"

Your comment is confusingly worded such that I don't know what "this way" means, but no, unless someone specifically asked me how my mind works with regards to this specific subject, I wouldn't self-describe anything to do with this at all.

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#175

Post by ElevenLathe »

gowld wrote: post #116
ElevenLathe wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relatedly, I'm not sure I really believe people who say they think in code and can't be bothered to render their ideas in design or decision documents with actual reasoning. I can't even tell if something is a real thought I'm having /in my own head/ until I've written it down or otherwise recorded it somewhere in the consensus reality. Very often, I /think/ I've got some problem or idea all fleshed out in my mind, b…

Code is "written it down or otherwise recorded it somewhere in the consensus reality" "thinking in code" means "render their ideas in code", like you render your ideas in English.

I agree, writing code is writing. I added a parenthetical above that hopefully clears that up. I guess my overall point is that I can't confidently say I've even had an actual idea, until I prove it to myself by voicing it, or writing it in code or prose, or drawing a diagram, or whatever. Thinking is hard, but it feels good to have thunk, so the mind is incentivized to give itself the illusion of having done so, if it can.

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#178

Post by pm215 »

kulahan wrote: post #153
noir_lord wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally, I can see images when I dream. If I dream I don't ever remember them - I assume I must, I think everyone (barring medical issues) has REM sleep. I envy people that, dreams sound amazing.

Have you tried a dream journal? We forget most of our dreams because we might have them at 2 am and wake up at 7 am. If you wake yourself up in the middle of the night one or two times, you're more likely to have been in the middle of a dream, and it's still up there in your brain enough to write down. The more you do this, the easier it becomes.

Personally I strongly do not want to get better at remembering dreams. At the moment I very rarely remember anything about dreaming, and on the very rare occasion that some fragment of memory from a dream pops into my head it is super confusing until I identify "oh, that must have been from a dream". I prefer to keep my memory uncontaminated with random garbage :)

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#179

Post by pessimizer »

swores wrote: post #172
pessimizer wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you're being confident to the point of cockiness yet talking absolute rubbish. Profound. I'm convinced. Ever consider speaking to the argument, or is this just easier? > So please don't assume there's some biased reason behind every downvote you get for that comment, at least some of us just think you're completely wrong. I'm guessing from the comment that you self-describe in this way? If so, why in the world woul…

I obviously wasn't trying to change your mind on the main subject, since I didn't make a single argument about it. I don't have an obligation to try to explain why I think you're wrong, and I don't understand the subject well enough to be the right person to do so. I was solely addressing your bullshit attempt to dismiss any downvotes as being people defending their own self images, by pointing out that I downvoted y…

I have no idea why you're concerned about my feeling about downvotes, but you're free to have it. I assumed it was a different reason, but it seems you're just concerned about me. I assure you that I'm fine.

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#180

Post by swores »

pessimizer wrote: post #179
swores wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I obviously wasn't trying to change your mind on the main subject, since I didn't make a single argument about it. I don't have an obligation to try to explain why I think you're wrong, and I don't understand the subject well enough to be the right person to do so. I was solely addressing your bullshit attempt to dismiss any downvotes as being people defending their own self images, by pointing out that I downvoted y…

I have no idea why you're concerned about my feeling about downvotes, but you're free to have it. I assumed it was a different reason, but it seems you're just concerned about me. I assure you that I'm fine.

I've no idea what part of my comment gave you the impression I was concerned about you in any way or had any reason to think you might not be fine, but good for you that you are! :)
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