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Free software scares normal people

danieldelaney.net

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Re: Free software scares normal people

#171

Post by vayup »

squeedles wrote: post #10

Good article, but the reasoning is wrong. It isn't easy to make a simple interface in the same way that Pascal apologized for writing a long letter because he didn't have time to write a shorter one. Implementing the UI for one exact use case is not much trouble, but figuring out what that use case is difficult. And defending that use case from the line of people who want "that + this little extra thing", or the "I j…

Spot on. Defending simplicity takes a lot of energy and commitment. It is not sexy. It is a thankless job. But doing it well takes a lot of skill, skill that is often disparaged by many communities as "political non sense"[1]. It is not a surprise that free software world has this problem.

But it is not a uniquely free software world problem. It is there in the industry as well. But the marketplace serves as a reality check, and kills egregious cases.

[1] Granted, "Political non sense" is a dual-purpose skill. In our context, it can be used both for "defending simplicity", as well as "resisting meaningful progress". It's not easy to tell the difference.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#172

Post by nerdponx »

duxup wrote: post #121
squeedles wrote: post #10

Good article, but the reasoning is wrong. It isn't easy to make a simple interface in the same way that Pascal apologized for writing a long letter because he didn't have time to write a shorter one. Implementing the UI for one exact use case is not much trouble, but figuring out what that use case is difficult. And defending that use case from the line of people who want "that + this little extra thing", or the "I j…

It always amazes me how even just regular every day users will come to me with something like this: Overly simplified example: "Can you make this button do X?" where the existing button in so many ways is only distantly connected to X. And then they get stuck on the idea that THAT button has to be where the thing happens, and they stick with it even if you explain that the usual function of that button is Y. I simpli…

Don't fall into the trap of responding to the user's request to do Y a certain way. They are asking you to implement Y, and they think they know how it should be implemented, but really they would be happy with Y no matter how you did it. https://xyproblem.info/

Re: Free software scares normal people

#173

Post by strix_varius »

lateforwork wrote: post #92

You don't need two different versions of the software, one that is easy and one that is powerful. You can have one version that is both easy and powerful. Key concepts here are (1) progressive disclosure and (2) constraints. See Don Norman's Design of Everyday things. https://www.nngroup.com/articles/progressive-disclosure/ https://www.nngroup.com/videos/positive-constraints-in-ux-wo...

Progressive disclosure can be intensely annoying to actual power users.

Definitionally, it means you're hiding (non-disclosing) features behind at least 1 secondary screen. Usually, it means hiding features behind several layers of disclosures.

Making a very simple product more powerful via progressive disclosure can be a good way to give more power to non-power users.

Making a powerful product "simpler" via progressive disclosure can annoy the hell out of power users who already use the product.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#175

Post by ghaff »

bigfishrunning wrote: post #169
psunavy03 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is precisely why desktop Linux has not knocked off Windows or MacOS.

And that's fine. Those users who want something that's not like desktop Linux have plenty of options.

And increasingly it doesn't matter because they just live in a browser anyway.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#176

Post by LambdaComplex »

ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #116
a_shovel wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proposing a CLI command as a candidate for "simplest UI ever" is a great gag.

Come on. "type ffmpeg, then hyphen i then the input filename then the output filename". I would've understood this when I was 8. Because I was super smart? No, because I was making a genuine effort.

To grab a random part of an ffmpeg command in my history: "-q:a 0 -map a"

Sorry, that's pretty damn indecipherable.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#177

Post by ripdog »

psunavy03 wrote: post #164
dayvid wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The contributors of free software tend to be power users who want to ensure their use case works. I don't think they're investing a lot of thought into the 80/20 use case for normal/majority or users or would risk hurting their workflow to make it easier for others

And this is precisely why desktop Linux has not knocked off Windows or MacOS.

I'd argue that's more because the average person has no interest in installing a new OS, or even any idea what an OS is.

Most people just keep the default. When the default is Linux (say, the Steam Deck), most people just keep Linux.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#178

Post by ThatFave »

hydrogen7800 wrote: post #159
pwg wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The portion you've overlooked is there is an entire population of users out there who have never seen, nor used, a command line, and telling them to "just type this out" ignores all the background command line knowledge necessary to successfully "just type this out": 1) They have to know how to get to a command line somewhere/how (most of this group of users would be stymied right here and get no further along); 2) T…

This describes me somewhat. I use FEA software and only recently started using it to execute jobs in CLI. I still trip over changing directories. Fortunately notepad++ has an option to open CLI with the filepath of the currently open file. I also didn't know right-click is paste in CLI. Don't use ctrl+c accidentally. But ctrl+v does work in powershell (sometimes?). "Error, command not found" is puzzling to me. Where…

To answer your last question, on your operating system there is something called “PATH”. It is a user- or systemwide variable that dictates where to look for programs. It basically is a list of directories, often separated by “:” Further reading: https://www.java.com/en/download/help/path.html (this may have Java references but still applies)

Re: Free software scares normal people

#179

Post by duxup »

dmd wrote: post #130
duxup wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always amazes me how even just regular every day users will come to me with something like this: Overly simplified example: "Can you make this button do X?" where the existing button in so many ways is only distantly connected to X. And then they get stuck on the idea that THAT button has to be where the thing happens, and they stick with it even if you explain that the usual function of that button is Y. I simpli…

You are describing a form of the XY problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem

I think you are likely correct, thank you.

Re: Free software scares normal people

#180

Post by duxup »

nerdponx wrote: post #172
duxup wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always amazes me how even just regular every day users will come to me with something like this: Overly simplified example: "Can you make this button do X?" where the existing button in so many ways is only distantly connected to X. And then they get stuck on the idea that THAT button has to be where the thing happens, and they stick with it even if you explain that the usual function of that button is Y. I simpli…

Don't fall into the trap of responding to the user's request to do Y a certain way. They are asking you to implement Y, and they think they know how it should be implemented, but really they would be happy with Y no matter how you did it. https://xyproblem.info/

Yeah I often will ask for a quick phone call and try to work from the top down, or the bottom up depending on the client. Getting to the thing we're solving often leads to a different problem description and later different button or concept altogether.

Sometimes it's just me firing up some SQL queries and discovering "Well this happened 3 times ... ever ..." and we do nothing ;)

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