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ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

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Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#171

Post by HaZeust »

boston_clone wrote: post #71

All, I recommend you familiarize yourself with relevant state laws regarding your protections when assisting folks that are in immediate danger, e.g.: https://oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_161.200 I'm not a lawyer. So, if you have counsel on retainer and can stomach the bill, get clarity there first. But know that many states have such protections on the books. The veil of immunity for DHS agents may soon be pierced…

Sort of. You have to look up if your state has "necessity/choice-of-evils” defense and the standard defense-of-others rule - and what scopes it has.

I'll tell you this much, most judges will regard a circumstance for you to exert force against a peace officer - seeming or actual - as an extralegal action, and will very rarely affirm it as a protected action from the books. And even if you beat such a case, it ruins your life in the process. Their qualified immunity will remain longer than you can remain solvent.

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#172

Post by throw0101c »

FireBeyond wrote: post #149
dragonwriter wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, put more succinctly, Wilhoit’s Law (which is framed as about “conservatism” rather than “fascism”, but the latter can be viewed as, within the context of the description, a complex of ideas which includes the former as its central element): Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not…

There's a similar quote that also fits: > If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy.

> If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy.

This is from David Frum, a conservative himself:

> Maybe you do not care much about the future of the Republican Party. You should. Conservatives will always be with us. If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy.

* https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/9077312-maybe-you-do-not-ca...

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#173

Post by toomuchtodo »

zzzeek wrote: post #63

the people who run YC and Hacker News have Peter Thiel's phone number. that's all I'm saying

They would call and say what? "Go home you crazy weaponized narcissist, you're drunk on power and delusions of techo authoritarianism." If you're challenging someone who can hurt you, you should not approach until you are highly confident you are going to win, whatever that looks like.

I hope the folks mentioned are, and continue to remain, somewhere safe while this plays out.

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#175

Post by throw0101c »

dragonwriter wrote: post #100
throw0101c wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The irony of doing this while covering their own faces It’s best to understand that fascists see hypocrisy as a virtue. It’s how they signal that the things they are doing to people were never meant to be equally applied. It’s not an inconsistency. It’s very consistent to the only true fascist value, which is domination. It’s very important to understand, fascists don’t just see hypocrisy as a necessary evil or an…

Or, put more succinctly, Wilhoit’s Law (which is framed as about “conservatism” rather than “fascism”, but the latter can be viewed as, within the context of the description, a complex of ideas which includes the former as its central element): Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not…

> Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.

While pithy, public intellectual/academic conservatives like David Frum and Tom Nichols would disagree, and say the rule of law should apply equally to everyone.

Frum (IIRC, though it may have been Applebaum) wrote articles years ago that the direction of the GOP was going was similar to that of Hungary: using public office to enrich family and friends and not prosecute the same when they broke the law. There have been numerous conservatives aghast at what the GOP was becoming / has now become, and were ringing the alarm for years.

* https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/04/hu...

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#176

Post by toomuchtodo »

burkaman wrote: post #76
downrightmike wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People can look identical, that's the reason we started using finger prints. Faces are not unique.

Also, this app uses photos from a combination of government databases, but there are millions of citizens without photo ID who won't show up in any of them.

Social media datasets are likely in use.

https://www.biometricupdate.com/202509/ice-awards-clearview-...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearview_AI

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#177

Post by sigwinch »

kragen wrote: post #64
elicash wrote: post #6

The irony of doing this while covering their own faces

What's ironic about it? That's like saying it's ironic for soldiers to fire their guns while in a trench. They're doing things unto others that they would not have done unto them.

It’s ironic that it’s brave to uncover your face, it’s brave to verify your identity, but these officers’ policy actively avoids the brave choice. Then, we’re supposed to accept that they’re operating in war zones like Portland.

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#179

Post by tsoukase »

Life in the US is turning like one of its sci-fi movies. Now it's playing the first half where the bad suppress the good, before the reverse will happen for a happy ending.

By saying such I might come up as part of The Resistance in the future, like German people that resisted the Nazis are considered heroes after the war.

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#180

Post by JohnFen »

throw0101c wrote: post #175
dragonwriter wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, put more succinctly, Wilhoit’s Law (which is framed as about “conservatism” rather than “fascism”, but the latter can be viewed as, within the context of the description, a complex of ideas which includes the former as its central element): Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not…

> Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. While pithy, public intellectual/academic conservatives like David Frum and Tom Nichols would disagree, and say the rule of law should apply equally to everyone. Frum (IIRC, though it may have been Applebaum) wrote articles years ago…

This. There's exactly nothing conservative about MAGA. Quite the opposite, it's overtly and proudly radical and extremist, and views actual conservative values with as much contempt as it views actual liberal values.
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