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Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

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Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#171

Post by yuliyp »

darepublic wrote: post #103
JohnMakin wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“just play better poker” like that’s an easy thing to do in a game of chance and incomplete information, with variance having years or decades long tails. not to mention it’s an unsolved game, so “better” poker doesn’t even really have a set definition and depends on tons of variables. and they literally knew what hole cards were coming - that’s vastly more of an edge than playing “better poker” than someone. Besides…

I understand the "need" for cheating but it does seem like overkill the way they cheated, at least as described. They've already got colluders, and then the auto shuffler reads the cards, and then they've ALSO got the contact lenses? Just some marked cards would have been sufficient. And then the rare time the fish catches up after being behind is your "let them win a hand and get traction". It just seems like they r…

Perhaps those were different iterations of the technique over time. Start with marking cards to identify face cards, then move on to x-ray table.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#172

Post by mgfist »

everdrive wrote: post #75

This is probably a very HN comment, but I cannot imagine why people actually like gambling and poker: - high likelihood you lose money - the point of the game is to lie to friends and strangers - you're stuck sitting at a table and following rules for hours - the only victory condition is that you take money from other people

Poker is so much fun with friends. It's not about winning, it's about hanging out and being a little competitive. It's a great way to hang out in real life for a few hours in today's online world.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#173

Post by PaulHoule »

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #25

This scheme doesn’t really make sense. Once you’ve convinced a wealthy person to play at your underground poker table, you’ve already won - just play better poker than them, ultra wealthy fish don’t have time to learn to play perfect poker and you do. Trying to extract slightly more money per hand via x ray tables etc kills the golden goose and doesn’t even necessarily increase total winnings, since it makes you win…

My understanding is that collusion is rampant in poker.

If you get introduced to a 'friendly' game of 5 players there's a good chance that these guys are signalling to each other and basically folding to whoever's got the best hand. You can't win against that. Even if you have 2 new players showing up at a table existing players could worry about collusion.

If you don't have the fancy trappings those guys did it is almost impossible to catch people colluding in poker.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#174

Post by awb »

smallstepforman wrote: post #157

This can be done with no tech at legit casinos. Just have a group of people with a predetermined “tell” system so that only the best hand in the group competes against the fish. In a 4 player game, with 3 teamplayers and 1 fish, thats 75% of games you’ll win. With zero tech.

A few issues:

* The casino takes a rake, so you lose money every hand, but you only win when the fish bets and loses. You’re also expected to tip the dealer

* Everything is on camera and dealers remember players, so there will be a lot of witnesses and evidence

* Seats often open one at a time, so you’d potentially lose money at other tables waiting to play together. Or, you all show up at once and ask to start a new table together, which would get suspicious.

* If you don’t know the fish’s cards, there’s still a chance you lose and lose big

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#175

Post by dec0dedab0de »

IT4MD wrote: post #80
QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #25

This scheme doesn’t really make sense. Once you’ve convinced a wealthy person to play at your underground poker table, you’ve already won - just play better poker than them, ultra wealthy fish don’t have time to learn to play perfect poker and you do. Trying to extract slightly more money per hand via x ray tables etc kills the golden goose and doesn’t even necessarily increase total winnings, since it makes you win…

Most criminals have a specific type of cleverness, but not intelligence. If they were smart people, they wouldn't do the crimes in the first place. I dealt with a low-tech breach at one of the hospitals I worked for. The criminal worked in HIM, and used paper and pencil to note specific info about specific types of patients. Since they worked in HIM, it was expected for them to view many medical records in a day and…

HIM = Health Information Management for anyone else wondering.

If they were smart people, they wouldn't do the crimes in the first place.

There are tons of smart people committing crimes. The levels of Intelligence, success, luck, greed, and morals can co-exist in every possible combination within one human.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#176

Post by metabagel »

everdrive wrote: post #75

This is probably a very HN comment, but I cannot imagine why people actually like gambling and poker: - high likelihood you lose money - the point of the game is to lie to friends and strangers - you're stuck sitting at a table and following rules for hours - the only victory condition is that you take money from other people

Playing poker on a more than casual basis seems like work. But, then again so does something like Farmville. Gotta keep grinding.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#177

Post by drdec »

prodigycorp wrote: post #5
Mistletoe wrote: post #2

Between all these recent gambling stories with coaches and players and the Kawhi thing I think I’m done with the NBA. The NBA’s gambling push has done nothing but gross me out. Greed unbridled. They saw the 1919 World Series and said “Let’s bet on this shit.”

This plus a lot of the soft greed. The insistence on a foul-centric game that leads to over 50% longer games, the ridiculous lack of investment on its own broadcast infra, the refusal to shorten the season (which is the longest in pro sports, longer than baseball's season, despite being less than half the games), and the consultant-driven management decisions - I have so much contempt for Adam Silver for making me ha…

> which is the longest in pro sports, longer than baseball's season, despite being less than half the games

You are clearly referring to calendar time, in which case the NHL season is longer

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#178

Post by tqi »

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #25

This scheme doesn’t really make sense. Once you’ve convinced a wealthy person to play at your underground poker table, you’ve already won - just play better poker than them, ultra wealthy fish don’t have time to learn to play perfect poker and you do. Trying to extract slightly more money per hand via x ray tables etc kills the golden goose and doesn’t even necessarily increase total winnings, since it makes you win…

They were also targeting pros, not merely wealthy players: https://x.com/OnlyFriends_Pod/status/1981379130190156129?s=4...

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#179

Post by CaptainOfCoit »

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #25

This scheme doesn’t really make sense. Once you’ve convinced a wealthy person to play at your underground poker table, you’ve already won - just play better poker than them, ultra wealthy fish don’t have time to learn to play perfect poker and you do. Trying to extract slightly more money per hand via x ray tables etc kills the golden goose and doesn’t even necessarily increase total winnings, since it makes you win…

> just play better poker than them

You really don't understand the mind of fraudsters and criminals. The reason they do what they do is because they don't want to "just be better at X than Y" and spend the effort for that, they want to take the shortcut and they think they've found the best shortcut considering their situation.

Once you start to look at what people are doing with that perspective, things will start to make more sense.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#180

Post by pavel_lishin »

everdrive wrote: post #104
pests wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s fun? Would you pay for an experience somewhere and then call it a loss because your bank balance is now lower? It’s not lying, it’s a game and everyone knows the rules. Cant the victory condition be… having fun? Why so transactional

>It’s not lying, it’s a game and everyone knows the rules. It's deception at a minimum. Lying could have a stricter definition depending on who you're talking about.

Right. But everyone knows you're all attempting to deceive each other; it's part of the game. It's consensual.
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