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Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

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Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#171
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you considered that it doesn’t matter that what they’re doing is legal? No, because it does matter. > You don’t need to know if it’s legal or illegal to know that it is wrong. Please explain why you think it is wrong. Or exactly, where does the wrongness come in? Is it wrong because they attempt to enforce immigration law? Do you consider it invalid for countries to restrict legal immigration? Why? Is it wrong…

Crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor. While what Trump did is a felony. Do you see masked agents kidnapping Trump without due process in the middle of the night?

How did we go from "in broad daylight" being used for emotional appeal, to using "in the middle of the night" for emotional appeal? If there is not a better time of day at which to take these actions, then adding these phrases is just highlighting the irrationality of the argument.

I already explained why this is definitionally not "kidnapping" nor a violation of due process. Being lawfully apprehended by federal agents is an arrest, which is completely compatible with due process. Due process rights apply after that point: things like not being held indefinitely, having access to legal representation, etc.

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quote is a call for unity, so I felt it inappropriate to end by attacking my fellow citizens.

If my fellow citizens are tired of liberal democracy, and subjecting the rest of us to something worse, it warrants criticism. Whether criticism will improve anything, or just annoy people, is another story. There's not likely to be any 'Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?' moment in the current environment, so God help us all.

You're approach seems very zero-sum: if the other side wins, we lose.

Some things are zero-sum, and maybe American politics has changed in a way that makes it zero-sum. But that's what it is.

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#173
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that it doesn’t matter that what they’re doing is legal? You don’t need to know if it’s legal or illegal to know that it is wrong. It is against the spirit of this nation (or, perversely, you could say it’s the intrinsic spirit of this nation coming out…). There are plenty of things legal which are wrong. That anyone is defending these actions by claiming to do them “legally” is a means of saving…

> Have you considered that it doesn’t matter that what they’re doing is legal? No, because it does matter. > You don’t need to know if it’s legal or illegal to know that it is wrong. Please explain why you think it is wrong. Or exactly, where does the wrongness come in? Is it wrong because they attempt to enforce immigration law? Do you consider it invalid for countries to restrict legal immigration? Why? Is it wrong…

Some of the people being detained and deported are asylum seekers who came to this country fleeing persecution in their home nation.

They arrived at this country following all the rules provided to them by prior administrations (including the last Trump administration). They have shown up for their court dates. Those that were permitted to work have found ways to contribute to their local economies. They've created homes, found love, and become part of their local communities. Their stories are abundant and well-documented, you can find them trivially.

I think it is wrong to remove peaceful, hard-working people from their present communities, doubly-so if they are asylum-seekers who have already demonstrated an extreme ability to suffer through the hardship of coming here.

The current administration is making a deliberate choice to interpret immigration law in a way that enables them to arbitrarily detain and deport these people, while rhetorically defining them as a violent, criminal invasion by foreign powers. Just because the executive branch has the legal right to treat non-citizens within our borders with impunity, does not make it right to do so.

What part of this picture do you think is right, and why?

Regarding slippery slope fallacy: if a policy choice enables or disables centralized detention and deportation infrastructure, wouldn't you prefer to follow the precautionary principle and avoid inadvertently building the tools of fascism? Even if you think Trump is acting in good faith and with restraint, his successors need not, and will inherit an infrastructure that amplifies their ability to inflict damage up the ladder of minorities.

Also, it's not true that "nobody wants to detain people who are legally not entitled to be in this country". There's a whole cottage industry of facilities popping up around the country that are paid by the inmate-detention-day, who do everything they can to avoid giving people due process so they can maximize their revenue. This industry will be happy to lobby for detention to apply to an ever-increasing circle of people.

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#174
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you show that they have arrested US citizens without reasonable suspicion? Can you otherwise show that law is not being followed? From what I can tell, they are legally allowed to wear masks for this. ICE's webpage also is adamant that they legally do not always require a warrant ( https://www.ice.gov/immigration-enforcement-frequently-asked... ), and Snopes agrees ( https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/06/21/ice-arr…

This took longer to cut and paste than it did to find on Google. Arresting and detaining citizens based only on race/language: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2025/10/scotus-analysis-... Rhetoric from Donald Trump: - https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/government/trump-calls-de... - https://apnews.com/article/trump-executive-order-domestic-ne... Rhetoric from Stephen Miller: https://en.as.com/latest_news/he-can-di…

The primary WBEZ source editorialized, and Slate's analysis took it further, such that your one-sentence summary ends up factually incorrect. The direct quote offered by WBEZ:

> “You know, there’s many different factors that go into something like that,” Bovino said. “It would be agent experience, intelligence that indicates there’s illegal aliens in a particular place or location.

> “Then, obviously, the particular characteristics of an individual, how they look. How do they look compared to, say, you?” he said to the reporter, a tall, middle-aged man of Anglo descent.

I disagree with such profiling, generally speaking, but as an objective matter of fact it is not being done "only on race/language". Also, it appears that these "Kavanaugh stops" involve possibly being taken in for questioning, but not any extended detainment.

Further, they did get a 6-3 SCOTUS decision permitting it — a decision that underscores that other factors are being used, not just "race/language". Specifically: "presence at particular locations such as bus stops, car washes, day laborer pickup sites, agricultural sites, and the like" and "the type of work one does". This is affirmed later: "Plaintiffs’ standing theory is especially deficient in this case because immigration officers also use their experience to stop suspected illegal immigrants based on a variety of factors. So even if the Government had a policy of making stops based on the factors prohibited by the District Court, immigration officers might not rely only on those factors if and when they stop plaintiffs in the future."

If there is a serious problem, it will end in widespread lawsuits from legal immigrants unjustly detained, or on their behalf. If Fourth Amendment rights are being violated, the system allows for justice to be done. I am not denying this possibility. But as the concurrence notes (omitting references to precedent):

> To stop an individual for brief questioning about immigration status, the Government must have reasonable suspicion that the individual is illegally present in the United States... a lesser requirement than probable cause and “considerably short” of the preponderance of the evidence standard... [that] depends on the totality of the circumstances. Here, those circumstances include: that there is an extremely high number and percentage of illegal immigrants in the Los Angeles area; that those individuals tend to gather in certain locations to seek daily work; that those individuals often work in certain kinds of jobs... that do not require paperwork and are therefore especially attractive to illegal immigrants; and that many of [them]... come from Mexico or Central America and do not speak much English. To be clear, apparent ethnicity alone cannot furnish reasonable suspicion; under this Court’s case law regarding immigration stops, however, it can be a “relevant factor” when considered along with other salient factors.

Someone else ITT proposed to me that ICE can't be held to account because the people in question "don't get court cases". Thanks for highlighting that they do, in fact.

Slate claims that Kavanaugh's "reasoning crumbled upon scrutiny", but there is nothing official about this — they're just linking some law professor's opinion on Substack. Slate doesn't do a great job of objective journalism in my experience; they routinely present opinion as fact like this.

The "Rhetoric from Trump" names two specific individuals as potentially funding terror groups, who are also known to fund the Democratic party. This is not the same as calling Democrats terrorists. Miller's rhetoric is precisely an example in 'the sense that there equally is rhetoric about "how republicans are fascists"' that I mentioned. It's him mouthing off on Hannity, not in an official government capacity. And the article doesn't even concretely show what it claims to be showing. It merely alludes to Hannity and Miller "... trying to paint the picture that all political violence occurring in the United States is the result of radical left-wingers incited by Democrats." Which again is not applying the label to Democrats broadly. The only hard evidence provided is linking to a tweet that has screencaps of other tweets from Miller — which are from during Biden's administration.

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#175
post #110

The real disservice of this sort of this sort of stuff is how flagrantly obvious they make the bad guy. Yeah, everyone can identify the idiot spouting off about skin color and engaging in an un-obfuscated textbook exercise in divide and conquer as probably not worth listening to. Patting yourself on the back becase you can identify it when it's flagrantly obvious is counterproductive. The guy in the internet comment…

The problem is that people are still falling for exactly the same sort of comic-book evil even though it's every bit as obvious. e.g. Haitian's eating dogs, illegal immigrants scamming medical services, stealing high-paying jobs, etc.. A high percentage of people completely lack what Carl Sagan would call a "Baloney detection kit", and the current purveyors of baloney like it that way. That's why they're anti-science…

I noticed you didn't include any bipartisan examples. I'll help with that,for example believing Joe Biden was sharp as a tack is more damaging than any examples listed, and is probably the primary factor in Trump's reelection.

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Algorithms don’t cause people to be racist and sexist. Their own insecurities cause them to be resort to tribalism.

Is that all you think this is about, being racist and sexist? I agree with OP, this video shows how easy it can be a sucker. There are two parts to it, one is being the sucker, the other is the specific content and time. OP is pointing out that the sucker is in every echo chamber because these chambers get filtered to only allow extreme viewpoints thrive.

It would be easier to accept a both-sides argument if there were good examples and counter-examples for what opposing viewpoints are equally reprehensible.

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that demonstrate targeting people whose presence is legal?

What a weird attempt at semantics. They "target" people based on skin color/appearance/attitude/language, completely ignoring the legalities. Thats the issue.

It is not semantics. They are not doing any such "targeting"; they are using this information among other factors, in a context where it objectively is rational to use that information, and it has already been found in court (hence "Kavanaugh Stops decision") that this is lawful. (Granted, this is only a stay against an injunction.) I gave details at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45581400 .

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#178
post #37
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who need to watch this are precisely the ones on HN, because we have outsized money and power. Keep in mind it was the tech elite that helped elect Trump. Some of them are here and will see this. Lets see how long until this post is flagged...

> Lets see how long until this post is flagged... I wouldn't be surprised if the video disappears too

Yeah I saw that it’s posted by the National archives and kinda wondered myself how long it would last if it went viral.

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#179
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't read the whole think but a search for "white" didn't find anything.

I believe "native brit" is what you are looking for

A complaint from a foreigner who wanted to move to London, who lost interest because there are now too many foreigners. Alright then.

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#180
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Iryna Zarutska were more Bayesian, the correct prejudice and acceptable amount of racism would have saved her life. Unfortunately for her, her priors were from .ua, not .us.

This is probably the stupidest thread I've ever had the displeasure of reading. In the U.S., most homicide perpetrators are white. And it is extremely rare for a Black person to intentionally kill a white person. https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-...

Your own stats actually seems to suggest otherwise, doesn’t it? About 1 in 5 murders of white people are committed by blacks, while about 1 in 10 murders of black people are committed by whites. And in absolute numbers there are slightly more black murderers.

Arguably race is the wrong metric anyway, isn’t it fairly well established that socioeconomic factors play the larger role by far?

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