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ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

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Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#171

Post by esalman »

godelski wrote: post #106

If you're running an Android phone open settings > Network & Internet > Internet > click on your network (e.g. Google Fi) > turn on 2G network protection (at the bottom). Alternatively: Security & privacy > Advanced Protection > Device protection. That does other stuff too though I'm not aware of a way to do this on iPhones... I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that many of these attacks work by performing 2G…

It looks like there's no such option on T-Mobile network settings. I'm on an OnePlus 12R and vanilla Oxygen OS.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#172

Post by tdeck »

jeroenhd wrote: post #99
NoiseBert69 wrote: post #6

Why aren't they using the official lawful interception interfaces? They will get all the data. Not only voice, data and SMS/RCS. All modern smartphones (like Pixels) allow you to switch off 2G. They even warn if you want to activate it.

Lawful interception requires things like paperwork, warrants, probably cause, and some kind of reason why you need to tap cellular comms in the first place. If you're operating a deportation agency in the style of roaming gangs of officers, you're probably not going to want to wait for the courts to dismiss your brute-force attempts to find illegals behind every door you break down. The anti-2G security measure is pr…

> Lawful interception requires things like paperwork, warrants, probably cause, and some kind of reason why you need to tap cellular comms in the first place.

In case folks hadn't been paying attention, probable cause isn't even worth their trouble when arresting someone these days.

> “DHS law enforcement uses ‘reasonable suspicion’ to make arrests,” DHS Assistant Secretary Tricia McLaughlin said in a statement to The Associated Press

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-admin-race-baiting-lawsuit-wo...

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#173

Post by toast0 »

xvector wrote: post #165
godelski wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! But also WTF Apple... I appreciate that this mode exists but each of those things should be allowed to be toggled independently. People need more fine grained experience. For things that I think will affect people more than the wireless connectivity Messages: Most message attachment types are blocked, other than certain images, video, and audio. Some features, such as links and link previews, are unavailable.…

Security engineer here. Bundling these together actually makes sense. - Message attachments are blocked because Apple has not figured out to serialize and deserialize attachments without buffer overflows. Look at how many zero days are due to message attachments. It's pretty clownish tbh. - FaceTime is blocked because Apple has not figured out how to prevent an incoming FaceTime call from silently spying on you, whic…

> FaceTime is blocked because Apple has not figured out how to prevent an incoming FaceTime call from silently spying on you, which has already happened a couple times.

There's also the codec problem. Apple doesn't trust itself to write secure codecs for message attachments, realtime codecs are at least as suspect. Codecs are tricky, and many vendors mess them up, so I'm not picking on Apple.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#174

Post by toast0 »

jeroenhd wrote: post #99
NoiseBert69 wrote: post #6

Why aren't they using the official lawful interception interfaces? They will get all the data. Not only voice, data and SMS/RCS. All modern smartphones (like Pixels) allow you to switch off 2G. They even warn if you want to activate it.

Lawful interception requires things like paperwork, warrants, probably cause, and some kind of reason why you need to tap cellular comms in the first place. If you're operating a deportation agency in the style of roaming gangs of officers, you're probably not going to want to wait for the courts to dismiss your brute-force attempts to find illegals behind every door you break down. The anti-2G security measure is pr…

> The anti-2G security measure is pretty much exclusive to a few high-end phones as far as I can tell.

I've got it on my phone which I think is mid-market at best: moto g stylus 5g - 2023. Snapdragon 6 Gen 1. ~ $250 in 2023.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#175

Post by godelski »

xvector wrote: post #165
godelski wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! But also WTF Apple... I appreciate that this mode exists but each of those things should be allowed to be toggled independently. People need more fine grained experience. For things that I think will affect people more than the wireless connectivity Messages: Most message attachment types are blocked, other than certain images, video, and audio. Some features, such as links and link previews, are unavailable.…

Security engineer here. Bundling these together actually makes sense. - Message attachments are blocked because Apple has not figured out to serialize and deserialize attachments without buffer overflows. Look at how many zero days are due to message attachments. It's pretty clownish tbh. - FaceTime is blocked because Apple has not figured out how to prevent an incoming FaceTime call from silently spying on you, whic…

I'm sorry, but you didn't make a case for bundling together and why finer grain control is would not make sense.

I have no doubt that the problems you guys solve are incredibly complex. There is no question about that.

But does bundling really make sense? I'm not sure why being subject to a 2G downgrade attack is relevant to my threat model including message attachments or FaceTime.

For example, going to a concert, protest, or any large gathering greatly increases my chance of being subject to a 2G downgrade attack but I'm unconvinced it increases my chances of multimedia or FaceTime based attacks.

These fall together in an high enough level but doesn't all security issues? A step down in abstraction and I don't think these are linked.

But you're the expert here. I'll trust you over me, but would like to better understand what I'm missing. This is Hacker News. We can expect everyone here to be familiar with programming and basic security here. So get technical with me

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#176

Post by toast0 »

15155 wrote: post #139
seadan83 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 14th amendment: "prohibits states from denying any person "life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"" The US constitution applies to all persons (people) inside of the USA regardless of citizenship. The amendment says PERSON, not CITIZEN. Therefore it should not matter at all how that person got here, they are due the same rights and process as __anyone__ else on American soil. That is the 14th amen…

Being deported isn't legally deprivation of "life, liberty, or property." Deportation is not a punishment and is entirely avoidable in 99% of cases: don't overstay or enter illegally.

How is it not deprivation of liberty to be forcibly removed from where you are and not allowed to return?

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#177

Post by nielsbot »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #31
nielsbot wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you agree enforcing immigration laws in this way is good and/or important? If so, can I ask why? What is our end goal?

> can I ask why? Simply put, Americans gave Republicans a popular mandate to reduce illegal immigration. Much of this was economic: illegal immigrants dilute the labour force. Some, particularly among Latin Americans, rose from perceived injustice: it’s frustrating to go through the American immigration process only to see someone who skipped it live a similar life. Some, e.g. those focused on crime, were just racist…

> Americans gave Republicans a popular mandate

Trump's win wasn't even close to being a mandate. Also, people (now) hate his enforcement policies.

> illegal immigrants dilute the labour force

ICE is not simply going after illegal immigrants for one thing. Also, immigrants support the economy. They do jobs Americans won't for one thing. But I'd love to see data on the amount of labor force dilution immigrants are doing. We should really one looking at the ownership class sitting on trillions of dollars of wealth and not sharing.

> perceived injustice

Exactly. We should have solidarity, not be pulling up the drawbridge behind us. But the current arrangement suits Capital just fine.

> If ICE were simply enforcing the law, I don’t think there would be a national outcry. The problem is they aren’t.

Agree. They're doing fascism.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#178

Post by SuperMouse »

wakawaka28 wrote: post #156
hypeatei wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a reason why Google and Apple wouldn't turn 2G downgrade off by default? Even the setting itself says "emergency calls over 2G are still allowed" so what is the reasoning behind leaving people exposed to this?

This is totally speculative but I bet 2G is more reliable and has longer range. If your reception is bad, it may be necessary to downgrade to get any connection at all.

LTE/5G is available on the low bands (700/800MHz) in Europe for a long long time now.

I'm running LTE-only with zero problems for 2 years now without a single coverage gap. Even in the rural parts.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#179

Post by mmustapic »

apparent wrote: post #169
actionfromafar wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, the children were interfering, sleeping in their beds.

Can you share links to this? Sounds awful. I have not heard of any children sleeping in beds being arrested by ICE, which would obviously be inappropriate/illegal.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/immigration/2025/10/01/massive-...

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#180

Post by shakna »

SuperMouse wrote: post #178
wakawaka28 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is totally speculative but I bet 2G is more reliable and has longer range. If your reception is bad, it may be necessary to downgrade to get any connection at all.

LTE/5G is available on the low bands (700/800MHz) in Europe for a long long time now. I'm running LTE-only with zero problems for 2 years now without a single coverage gap. Even in the rural parts.

Europe's size may not lead you to comprehending the US' size.

East to west, Texas is larger than most European nations. Meaning it has rural areas larger than some European nations.

Whilst there probably are other complaints to add to build the explanation, scale isn't one. The US does have vast and empty spaces.

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