Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

riksbank.se

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 581 posts

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#171

Post by bsder »

DavidVoid wrote: post #141
upcoming-sesame wrote: post #127

Here in southern Europe on the other hand, cash is a crucial part of the tax evasion economy

That is partially why the banks/government in Sweden have been happy to phase it out. Companies also don't like dealing with cash because it requires extra accounting, security, and transportation. In the early 2000s there were about 50 cash transport robberies per year in Sweden, in 2018 there was 1.

> Companies also don't like dealing with cash because it requires extra accounting, security, and transportation.

At least in the US, individual businesses don't like dealing with credit because of the transaction fees but are kind of forced to thanks to everybody else taking credit everywhere.

Of course, the big chains love credit and are happy to pay the transaction cost because it lets them audit all the transactions and increase their control over local managers and employees. Presumably, the big chains also negotiate lower fees.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#172

Post by vkou »

Etheryte wrote: post #5

Some context might be useful here. I spent some time living Sweden not too long ago and Swedes practically don't use cash. It's usually not said out loud, but cash is often considered to be dirty and criminal, to the point that most don't have any at all. Digital payments are very convenient and deeply integrated, so long as you have a local ID which allows you use the local payment system Swish etc. This worked nice…

> but cash is often considered to be dirty and criminal, to the point that most don't have any at all.

Is it because it's considered dirty and criminal, or is it because it's a pain in the ass to deal with, and most people have no reason to bother with regularly withdrawing it, and then carrying it around?

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#173

Post by blurrybird »

daneel_w wrote: post #161
renhanxue wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Swedish and if someone insists on doing a transaction using cash when Swish or card is available, I'd immediately start to wonder if it's for some kind of more or less shady reason, probably tax evasion at the very least.

You have to differentiate common purchases from "large" purchases in this discussion. I'm certain you don't think there's something shady going on, or tax evasion happening, if someone uses cash in the grocery store or at Pressbyrån, or to pay for some little gadget or whatever at Kjell&Co. This is what people think of when someone "uses cash". Not hauling tens of thousands to buy a used car or to settle the bill for…

FWIW I am Australian and we have a similar adoption rate of cashless payments.

If a merchant tries to promote cash options I immediately think they’re doing it for tax evasion reasons - not because of the touted reason that “card payments cost more to process” (they don’t once you factor in the cost of handling cash).

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#174

Post by detaro »

yieldcrv wrote: post #169
samus wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Card networks have supported this mode of operation for a long time.

What is Sweden’s issue then? Why is the central bank involved in this at all?

card networks can do a lot of things, doesn't mean issuers and merchants are using it.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#175

Post by chairmansteve »

Back in the day, we used these machines to take a paper imprint of the card. You would get a copy and give it to the bank. There was a phone number you could ring to check if the card was valid. I never phoned the number.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_card_imprinter

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#176

Post by dhosek »

pjmlp wrote: post #18
mrtksn wrote: post #9

It's not about paying by cash but paying by card offline. How is this going to be implemented I wonder. On planes they often accept credit cards even when there's no internet. I assume this is a trust in-credit-based system because they don't accept debit cards, i.e. if you are worth being trusted with a card you can have your sandwich now and we will take care of the bank processing once we are on the ground. So may…

Exactly like that most likely, I am old enough to remember those machines where credit cards left their mark on the receipt, that is why their numbers are higher than the card. Here, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_card_imprinter

When I got my first account to accept credit cards in the 90s, they sent me a kachunka machine along with a bunch of window stickers, all of which were kind of silly since it was for a magazine and I almost never took payments in person (it was also a challenge to persuade banks that the fraud risk was low since magazine subscriptions required a stable mailing address over the course of a year—as it turned out, the only instance of fraud I ever had was a subscription plus back issue order sent to Hungary—still kind of weird to think someone would engage in crime to get issues of a magazine about typography).

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#177

Post by ThrownOffGame »

reaperducer wrote: post #92
lostlogin wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there people that like cheques? They are no longer a thing in New Zealand. It seems like something no-one would miss.

Are there people that like cheques? For no good reason, I keep a list of why I use checks (in the U.S.): - Charitable donations because charities maximize every penny, and electronic contributions eat into that - Paying the accountant - Good accountants make every penny count, and aren't interested in paying credit card overhead. - Tipping the paperboy at Christmas - Tipping the doorman at Christmas - Business licens…

[dead]

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#178

Post by dhosek »

mikestew wrote: post #82
adrianpike wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We did sailing charters growing up and had one of these on the boat, I was in charge of it and the sound & feel of the CH-CHUNK is seared into my memories like nothing else. We never got any declines, but I always wondered how that reconciliation process actually worked out.

We never got any declines, but I always wondered how that reconciliation process actually worked out. IIRC, the merchant gets paid if hitting a credit limit or similar decline reason. The card holder then gets hit with a financial penalty (usurious interest rates, or extra charges). If the card has been stolen, it ends up in a big phonebook-like book for offline use (otherwise the merchant just called it in for big p…

I remember buying books at a shop in Denver in the late 80s and watching the proprietor look to see if my card was in the big book of stolen credit cards numbers before he ran my card through the kachunka machine.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#179

Post by zx8080 »

varispeed wrote: post #99
daneel_w wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "It's usually not said out loud, but cash is often considered to be dirty and criminal ..." Are you sure this isn't impression you've gotten from isolated reactions involving a small number of individuals, perhaps just a single individual? I can't relate to the sentiment at all, having lived here for just over three decades and experiencing the popularity shift from cash to debit card. I can, in fact, not recall a…

> it feels less risky carrying a debit card Depends. Very long time ago I was approached by a group of seemingly friendly people asking for direction, then I felt sharp object to my belly and they told me to walk slowly towards cash point. They said they'll stab me if I don't withdraw all money I can. So I did. When cards were not popular, I would have small amount of cash in the wallet and anything more substantial…

> then I felt sharp object to my belly and they told me to walk slowly towards cash point.

Wow. What country is/was that?

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#180

Post by 0points »

mylifeandtimes wrote: post #104
daneel_w wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "It's usually not said out loud, but cash is often considered to be dirty and criminal ..." Are you sure this isn't impression you've gotten from isolated reactions involving a small number of individuals, perhaps just a single individual? I can't relate to the sentiment at all, having lived here for just over three decades and experiencing the popularity shift from cash to debit card. I can, in fact, not recall a…

> Are you sure this isn't impression you've gotten from isolated reactions involving a small number of individuals, perhaps just a single individual? Swedish here. The impression is common. Sweden is a small country and has long had a fairly cohesive culture. The culture has decided that digital payments are the way. Deviation from the collective way is always suspect.

> Swedish here. The impression is common.

Swedish here, too.

Your impression is misguided. Maybe it's the norm in Stockholm, but 80% of the population live elsewhere. We do use cash and nobody thinks its suspicious to pay with cash, stop making stuff up.

Post reply on HN