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Electron-based apps cause system-wide lag on macOS 26 Tahoe

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Re: Electron-based apps cause system-wide lag on macOS 26 Tahoe

#171

Post by torben-friis »

rpgbr wrote: post #146
torben-friis wrote: post #13

I’m surprised to see so little pushback in press to iOS/macOS 26. I’ve been part of the public beta and it’s been so weird going from “this sucks but it’s a first beta” through “it really isn’t improving much as time goes by” to “we’re a week from launch, there’s no way they release this after the Apple Intelligence fiasco”. And yet here we are. Performance issues, ui inconsistencies and garish design everywhere.

I'm doing my job: https://manualdousuario.net/en/liquid-glass-2/

I won’t lie, with today’s apple the implied possibility that the resource hungry style is intentional is believable.

Re: Electron-based apps cause system-wide lag on macOS 26 Tahoe

#172

Post by jitl »

viraptor wrote: post #109
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple's position is technically noble, but that doesn't help their users. The alternative doesn’t help either. That’s the approach Microsoft has taken and look what a mess Windows is because of it.

> what a mess Windows is because of it. Can you point at any part of windows being a mess specifically because of backwards compatibility?

Control panel / settings

Re: Electron-based apps cause system-wide lag on macOS 26 Tahoe

#173

Post by sgerenser »

bombcar wrote: post #123
x0x0 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, it's Apple's fault. Not regression testing against major apps is pure incompetence. Also, this in the comment: > [a user] Please try any way of getting in touch with Apple engineers you can. As a project, we don't have a better connection to Apple than you do. > > One approach might be the engineer who replied to the Bluesky post that someone linked to above about the input issue. Pure incompetence. Major projec…

This is downvoted, but it's true. It doesn't matter who's fault it is in some Aristotelean sense, what matters is the user upgraded to YOUR new OS, and now shit don't work. Raymond Chen and Microsoft got this, years ago. Joel talked about it. You make shit work , even if it's the software being a fuck.

Or, as some OS maintainer once said: WE DO NOT BREAK USERSPACE! Seriously. How hard is this rule to understand? We particularly don't break user space with TOTAL CRAP.

Re: Electron-based apps cause system-wide lag on macOS 26 Tahoe

#175

Post by jcelerier »

ryandrake wrote: post #61
marcosdumay wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> despite one piece of code making a method private, another piece of code still overrides it/modifies it/calls it, an affront to the idea of encapsulation That's inherent on the way current computers manage the memory. And I don't know if the gains are enough to pay for the loses of guaranteeing encapsulation. One could reach for static analysis, but that would imply some restrictions on the machine's assembly. Thos…

I don’t understand what goes through the developer’s mind. A method is marked as private. It’s documented as not to be used by developers. Further documentation says that using it may break your application in strange ways now or in the future. Despite all this, the developer concludes: “yea, I think it’s a good idea to use this API!” Then, later when something breaks, it’s Shocked Pikachu all around.

If breaking encapsulation delivers value under the form of features-making-users-happy for a couple years and the fix when it breaks is a matter of a couple weeks (and, like here, a line of code) then it's definitely the right tradeoff

Re: Electron-based apps cause system-wide lag on macOS 26 Tahoe

#176

Post by nozzlegear »

wk_end wrote: post #118
dpoloncsak wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like Joe will direct his anger towards Slack and Spotify, and as a paying customer he has every right to be upset when his software doesn't work.

I doubt he will - they didn’t change, his OS did, they worked before, post hoc ergo propter hoc. Anyway, they’re from different companies, how could they both be at fault? If he even identifies them as related - he probably had them both running at startup and never quits them.

How much cognition are we assigning to Joe in this hypothetical scenario? You make him out to be barely more capable than a lab chimpanzee dully poking at a screen to get some fruit. Give Joe a little credit, people aren't as dumb as you think.

Re: Electron-based apps cause system-wide lag on macOS 26 Tahoe

#177

Post by c-hendricks »

bombcar wrote: post #125
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stopped using the Slack Electron wrapper as soon as Safari added support for "installing" web apps (File > Add to Dock…). Wouldn't be surprised if people within Apple did similar.

Mind blown, this may actually be freaking useful ...

This made me try it out again since the feature was first released. Looks like they added support for Safari extensions and content blockers to PWAs in macOS 15.0.

Re: Electron-based apps cause system-wide lag on macOS 26 Tahoe

#178

Post by rogerrogerr »

thfuran wrote: post #136
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's sometimes "you can't possibly fix the bug or implement the feature that you want to" Yes. It is, and that is what any responsible person should choose.

So you'd tell customers "No, I'm not fixing that bug because doing so would offend my aesthetic sensibilities. Yes, I know you have a support contract, but I simply refuse to address your problem even though I could"? Or maybe you'd phrase it a little differently in public.

“Poor decisions on your part do not constitute an emergency on mine.”

Re: Electron-based apps cause system-wide lag on macOS 26 Tahoe

#179

Post by FireBeyond »

sgjohnson wrote: post #72
wk_end wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Windows made tons of progress while maintaining this principle and became the most popular operating system in the world. Are you trying to tell me that you believe the evolution of Windows from 1.0 all the way to 7 - the entire time trying to operate according to this principle - doesn't constitute meaningful progress? The recent stagnation of the OS has nothing to do with attempting to maintain backwards comp…

You can still find applications written for Windows 3.1 in the latest builds of Windows 11. Something regarding database drivers if I recall correctly. Now imagine if you could get rid of all that legacy crap to make it work in the first place. Microsoft CAN’T do that, because the entire premise of Windows is backwards compatability. Apple? They don’t care. Killing 32bit apps? Just make an announcement saying that in…

I mean macOS Settings were decidedly schizophrenic until quite recently. Audio MIDI Setup last got a version update in 2017.

AirPort Utility? Apple disbanded that team in 2016. There hadn't been a new AirPort since 2013.

Re: Electron-based apps cause system-wide lag on macOS 26 Tahoe

#180

Post by aw1621107 »

sgerenser wrote: post #173
bombcar wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is downvoted, but it's true. It doesn't matter who's fault it is in some Aristotelean sense, what matters is the user upgraded to YOUR new OS, and now shit don't work. Raymond Chen and Microsoft got this, years ago. Joel talked about it. You make shit work , even if it's the software being a fuck.

Or, as some OS maintainer once said: WE DO NOT BREAK USERSPACE! Seriously. How hard is this rule to understand? We particularly don't break user space with TOTAL CRAP.

This situation seems to be more analogous to an out-of-tree driver which reaches into kernel internals, which Linux does break all the time.
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