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Always Invite Anna

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171–180 of 183 posts

Re: Always Invite Anna

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In short, there are some things that are risky to tell your boss. The biggest one is if you’re unhappy. A good boss will try to work with you to resolve the issue, and help you transition to another role or company if that isn’t possible. A bad one will undermine you, violate your confidences by reporting the concern up the chain, or even outright fire you. I’ve had the all of the above happen, though it’s been a whi…

That's exactly the distinction between formal and informal in many languages.

Really?

Now I’m going to have to brush up on my German, just so I can better understand the social “dance” of switching between “sie” and “du”…

Re: Always Invite Anna

#172
I've definitely done a version of this.

Sometimes when my friends wanted to do something, I'd suggest asking someone who frequently declined and they'd ask what the point was.

Well either our friend joins us for once or she declines, but if you at least ask she knows she was wanted and thought of. Pure upside.

Re: Always Invite Anna

#173

Even better, ask Anna what she wants to do. Maybe bowling on Sunday afternoon is more her thing.

Yep, if the group is constantly doing stuff she doesn't like, maybe she needs a better fitting group. I mean it may feel nice to be "included" in the invites to all the loud parties that the group is doing all the time, but if you hate loud parties, it is even better to be included in invites by a group that does stuff you like better. These invites that are always declined only provide an illusion of inclusion.

Sort of. Usually people are into more than one thing. It is rare for partying to be the only thing a group is into.

Re: Always Invite Anna

#174
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You bringing in the "three strikes rule", I'm reminded of game theory. They have the famous (repeat) prisoner's game, where two parties decide to either collaborate or to screw the other party. People ran software simulations of various strategies, and the winner is: Tit for tat. In other words, you start positive (invite), and stay like that until the other person screws you. They you screw them once next time and t…

AFAIK the strategy was slightly different: You start collaborative, and then simply repeat the other person's last action. This means that, if they screw you, you keep screwing them until they turn collaborative, at which point you collaborate in the next iteration.

[deleted]

Re: Always Invite Anna

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly the distinction between formal and informal in many languages.

Really? Now I’m going to have to brush up on my German, just so I can better understand the social “dance” of switching between “sie” and “du”…

It's of course a bit more elaborate, but if you feel comfortable trusting someone AND it's socially accepted that you offer it, then you are expected to offer it.

This can naturally also used to deceive people, so maybe people will act like they trust you, but doesn't while still telling you they do, so there may be people you use informal with that you don't actually trust.

But that's the general idea behind it. Nowadays, there are some, that try to use "Du" everywhere, maybe due to globalization and the proliferation of English, but this can make people (e.g. me) very uncomfortable. I then just stick with formal and in the next reply they do the same. I hate calling e.g. my boss with informal, exactly because it implies a internal trust, that just isn't there.

Re: Always Invite Anna

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I overheard two very outgoing co-workers once, where one asked the other if he was having his holiday party. "It was last weekend", he said. "Oh, I didn't get an invite" "That's because you never come" She looked shocked, I think she genuinely didn't know what to say. After an awkward silence she said, "but I liked to be invited" "I'll happily invite you next year if you promise to come" She smiled politely and walke…

It's probably just ego on the one side. That person likes to be invited to feel like they are the more valuable person in the relationship. If I were the other person I would make sure that invitation is never extended.

That sounds like you projecting onto others

Re: Always Invite Anna

#177
post #89

This is especially valuable for friends who struggle with depression. They almost never feel like going out because depression sucks out all their energy. But they'll appreciate the invite and that they're not forgotten. It's harder this way for them to isolate and go deeper down the spiral. One rule that helped me fight my depression was to accept invites no matter what. Go to the loud bar I don't like? I'm in. Cake…

I think one of the most important lessons in life (even as a healthy person) is realizing “motivation and action are cyclically causal” Of course “action follows motivation” but even when not motivated “motivation follows action”. For example, even as a healthy person I am not always motivated to go to the gym after a busy day at work which I am “so tired from”. I go dispite the lack of motivation. Unsurprisingly, I…

Acting with neither intrinsic nor extrinsic motivation is technically impossible, no? Otherwise, i wonder how this mysterious third force compelling you into a gym absent motivation relates to your personal psychology / environment, and how executive dysfunction (both genetic, and technology-induced) fits into the picture.

Re: Always Invite Anna

#178
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a lot of what we call "not having social skills" is frequently an euphemism for "being mean and then wondering why people avoid me" situation. Nah, Dunning-Kruger is in effect here. People are frequently far less emotionally-intelligent than they believe themselves to be, and will misinterpret the actions and intentions of others, often projecting onto them their own hang-ups, insecurities, and vices. There is also…

> who merely makes another individual (or, more likely, someone of the social group that individual is a part of with large amounts of social capital) uncomfortable is branded as "mean" or "an asshole" I am talking about people who are insult others, mean, condescending, refuse to consider very real and practical needs of others as valid. These absolutely exist and they get euphemized away, just like you do it now, a…

>I am talking about people who are insult others, mean, condescending, refuse to consider very real and practical needs of others as valid. These absolutely exist and they get euphemized away, just like you do it now, as "just being awkward and misunderstood".

I didn't say that it doesn't happen. I said that people are very bad at distinguishing when it does from when it isn't happening. The crux of this discussion is regarding when one should make assumptions about someone's possibly antisocial behavior, and I'm saying that most people aren't able to do this in a way that isn't itself antisocial.

>You are refusing to listen and read what I said, projecting some kind of completely different situations onto the one I described. That wont elucidate empathy, because you are simply not considering what I said in the first place.

Please consider the implications of the fact that I said "elucidate and inspire empathy," not "elucidate empathy".

>If on ended up doing harm to others unintentionally

Discomfort is not necessarily harm. You are likely to feel discomfort when you're wrong. That should be okay, as correcting that since of discomfort should shepherd you to a more correct stance.

If not, then there's an element of hypocrisy involved, as "nerds" (often neurodivergent) are frequently made to feel uncomfortable. They are told that this discomfort is natural and simply a part of socialization, even while they're the only ones made to feel this way (and often because of misinterpretations of their behavior or intent). This reservation of a right to comfort to a default group is an ACTUAL harm, as it's a tenet of many social ills, including classism, white supremacy, and caste.

Re: Always Invite Anna

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part don't you understand? I'm sure you engage with other forms of social status and signaling and this one seems pretty straightforward

I believe they were implying they don’t get social cues due to neurodivergence, likely autism. Hilariously you’re also not picking up on their social cues and implications, which is likewise telling.

I did, but felt rude to just tell them they're autistic

Re: Always Invite Anna

#180
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You bringing in the "three strikes rule", I'm reminded of game theory. They have the famous (repeat) prisoner's game, where two parties decide to either collaborate or to screw the other party. People ran software simulations of various strategies, and the winner is: Tit for tat. In other words, you start positive (invite), and stay like that until the other person screws you. They you screw them once next time and t…

AFAIK the strategy was slightly different: You start collaborative, and then simply repeat the other person's last action. This means that, if they screw you, you keep screwing them until they turn collaborative, at which point you collaborate in the next iteration.

Yup. In real situations, one element is that sometimes things are misunderstood, and in particular sometimes collaborating is mistaken for defecting, so if all sides are playing pure tit-for-tat, then one can end up in a defect-defect loop forever (or, I guess, until the opposite misinterpretation occurs). Therefore, an element of forgiveness (some percent chance that you'll respond to a defect with a cooperate) can be helpful.
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