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The Storm Hits the Art Market

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Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#171

Post by weregiraffe »

pjc50 wrote: post #158
EGreg wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2022 is also when the wars in Ukraine and Gaza started in earnest When wars are going on, most people in affected countries are thinking about heavier things than going to an art exhibit and boosting their collections. 2020 and 2021 was when the pandemic happened. Businesses started feeling the crunch all over the world from the lockdowns. Supply chains got bullwhipped. People weren’t exactly interested in going to b…

> 2022 is also when the wars in Ukraine and Gaza started in earnest This is just wrong for Gaza; either you take the "conflict has been running continuously since 1948" approach, or you date the present intense fighting to October 2023. > AI has now sent a supply shock to the whole art industry Not to the "fine art" part of it, no. It's taken out the lower and middle tiers; people doing commissions for a few hundred…

The conflict started long before 1948. Hint: creation of the State of Israel is an effect of the conflict, not its cause.

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#172

Post by MangoToupe »

sandspar wrote: post #54

My city has a medium size art gallery. Every couple of years, the curators will hold their nose and run an exhibit by "dead white males": figurative painters like Rembrandt. The gallery becomes packed with people. Afterward the curators go back to their usual fare of "Iranian-American textile artists" or whatever; the gallery sees no visitors for months. Bleeding money, the gallery recently laid off half their staff.…

Rembrandt is easy enough to see on my phone. I get it.

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#173

Post by [deleted] »

esarbe wrote: post #150
randmeerkat wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The public is not conscious of how big of a deal the war in Ukraine is. My sincerest desire is that there’s a peaceful resolution to this conflict before they’re forced to realize it.

The only peaceful resolution is Russia accepting the sovereignty and territorial integrity of its neighbors. Otherwise there will be no peace, just oppression and torture of the occupied population. And more war down the line, when Russia feels it can take another bite.

[deleted]

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#174

Post by NoOn3 »

esarbe wrote: post #150
randmeerkat wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The public is not conscious of how big of a deal the war in Ukraine is. My sincerest desire is that there’s a peaceful resolution to this conflict before they’re forced to realize it.

The only peaceful resolution is Russia accepting the sovereignty and territorial integrity of its neighbors. Otherwise there will be no peace, just oppression and torture of the occupied population. And more war down the line, when Russia feels it can take another bite.

By saying this, you must understand that many more people may die for this purpose, and even yourself.

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#175

Post by esarbe »

NoOn3 wrote: post #174
esarbe wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only peaceful resolution is Russia accepting the sovereignty and territorial integrity of its neighbors. Otherwise there will be no peace, just oppression and torture of the occupied population. And more war down the line, when Russia feels it can take another bite.

By saying this, you must understand that many more people may die for this purpose, and even yourself.

It's Russia's purpose to attack its peaceful, friendly and neutral neighbors.

No one forces Russia to attack its neighbors.

As long as Russia insists on waging war against its sovereign neighbors, Russia is a threat to Europe.

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#176

Post by incone123 »

boston_clone wrote: post #144
non_aligned wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm amazed that the article doesn't discuss the end of ZIRP. I'm not sure this particular phenomenon can be explained this way. For example, antiques auctions are doing quite well, with prices rising quite briskly year after year. There's still plenty of money chasing the kinds of long-term investments you can hold in your hand, put on a shelf, and show to your friends. Jewelry sales are doing fine too. There are o…

I do wonder if one of those reasons is that the general sentiment of the public is moving beyond contempt and towards sharp objects not dissimilar to how friends across the channel tended to handle things.

I doubt wealthy people are afraid to shop at London galleries or auctions. There are street robberies but they target watches and phones, not so much antiques.

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#177

Post by tjwds »

non_aligned wrote: post #115
CydeWeys wrote: post #58

I'm amazed that the article doesn't discuss the end of ZIRP. The bursting of the art market bubble in mid 2022 coincides exactly with when interest rates started rising following the 'transitory' inflation caused by pandemic relief measures. This was also the same time that we started seeing hiring freezes in tech, the bursting of the luxury watch bubble, etc. It's all tied together, and has the same root cause: It s…

> I'm amazed that the article doesn't discuss the end of ZIRP. I'm not sure this particular phenomenon can be explained this way. For example, antiques auctions are doing quite well, with prices rising quite briskly year after year. There's still plenty of money chasing the kinds of long-term investments you can hold in your hand, put on a shelf, and show to your friends. Jewelry sales are doing fine too. There are o…

The end of ZIRP definitely hit the contemporary art market — what the article is referring to — harder than the fine art market.

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#178

Post by csomar »

djtango wrote: post #131
CydeWeys wrote: post #58

I'm amazed that the article doesn't discuss the end of ZIRP. The bursting of the art market bubble in mid 2022 coincides exactly with when interest rates started rising following the 'transitory' inflation caused by pandemic relief measures. This was also the same time that we started seeing hiring freezes in tech, the bursting of the luxury watch bubble, etc. It's all tied together, and has the same root cause: It s…

Someone in the space told me that China were big buyers of art but suddenly they stopped. This could be because of capital controls, financial stress or increasing sense of national pride - take your pick

Not only China and they didn't stop because of national pride (wouldn't have bought them in the first place). The reason is that they were using them as financial instruments and now they have less confidence on the West. So they are moving to other things.

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#179

Post by esarbe »

khazhoux wrote: post #166
nine_k wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roman Empire, or Genghis Khan, or Nazi Germany did not have a "conflict" with neighbors, some kind of quarrel that can end in a compromise. They had a desire to conquer, subdue, and consume the neighbors. There could be no resolution beside a complete capitulation and becoming annexed. Russia is currently acting in this mode. There can be no "resolution", only a devastating military defeat of one of the sides.

Why are you trying to redefine a word? My most low-effort refutal is simply to consult Webster’s Dictionary: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conflict > Definition #1: : Fight, battle, war So, having proved my point, I’ll note that (1) this war could certainly end in compromise, and (2) even a devastating military defeat would be a resolution. And I’ll appreciate not being called an invasion-sympathizer whe…

I guess a robbery can be called a conflict too.

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#180

Post by csomar »

echelon wrote: post #92
jfengel wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US stock market and cryptocurrencies are both going gangbusters. You don't need ZIRP to be awash in cash. Money can print itself when rich people are optimistic. I don't know what causes bubbles to pop, but I don't think it's directly related to US monetary policy. I suspect that the bubble just moved elsewhere.

It might be that anyone can generate "art" now. While canvas, sculpture, and other media are far removed from jpegs, the scarcity of adjacent digital forms going away may have reduced the interest in the market for "shaped aesthetic things". The attention, and thus money, has moved elsewhere.

Pretty much every country is in conflict at their border. However, resolutions can happen peacefully. Nations are essentially pillaging structures and thus want to always expand their borders.
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