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The elegance of movement in Silksong

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Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#171

Post by frisia »

Gigachad wrote: post #70
mrinterweb wrote: post #45

I've played a couple hours of silksong. I don't get the hype. Its a fine game, but I really think people are over hyping it. The internet hype loop on this game is turning me off on it. It's a nice metroidvania game.

I’ve had multiple friends insist that I absolutely have to play this game. But I just know I won’t like it because I don’t like any of the other games that are like it. This game seems to be the labubu of gamers in terms of social media hysterics.

I would recommend giving Hollow Knight a try, I think it has very good accesibility and I know many people who typically don't like these kind of games that did find Hollow Knight enjoyable. Silksong is a beast though, I love it but very few people I would actually recommend this game to.

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#173

Post by omgmajk »

alexchantavy wrote: post #90
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #49

> Silksong as a game should not exist. It is so brutally difficult that it stretches the very definition of the word "game". Games are supposed to be fun [...] I haven't actually played HK yet, and I don't normally play Souls-likes, but I did finally start playing Elden Ring about two months ago. Yes, I've had times where I'm cursing out loud because I've been trying to beat a boss for three hours without success, so…

When I was in college, I bought Demon's Souls and also started the most difficult semester I'd had yet with 3 classes deeply into my CS major. I was terrified of what lay ahead of academically, so I procrastinated by playing Demon's Souls. Yes, Demon's Souls was hard, but eventually I somehow I started passing dungeons and beating bosses. The rush that I got from that gave me what I needed mentally to persevere throu…

This is so real, Dark Souls has helped me immensely in keeping my concentration up for work and other things in life. It's very good at teaching you lessons that translate to real life.

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#174

Post by bernds74 »

zeta0134 wrote: post #88
vunderba wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Silksong as a game should not exist. It is so brutally difficult that it stretches the very definition of the word "game". Games are supposed to be fun [...] I haven't played Silksong yet and I know difficulty is rather subjective, but is it really that difficult compared to the realm of punishing platformers like NES Ninja Gaiden, Cuphead, Spelunky 2, the dark world portions of Super Meat Boy, etc? I played the fi…

Silksong starts very difficult compared to Hollow Knight, largely because there are many early foes that will deal 2 masks of damage. Those sorts of big attacks were generally reserved for mid to late bosses in Hollow Knight, and it caught even skilled players off guard. Hornet has a lot of mobility though, and a much easier time dodging out of the way, so once you adapt to her playstyle (be patient, dodge, and punis…

With everything doing 2 points of damage, including environmental hazards, the player is at effectively 2.5 hitpoints for a large majority of Act 1, as opposed to 5 in Hollow Knight. This changes the feeling of the game from "oh, a challenge, let's see what will happen and I'll learn" to "shit, a new room, I don't want to explore because I'll just get killed, where was the last bench, can I even get back here?"

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#175

Post by M4v3R »

Gander5739 wrote: post #153
M4v3R wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silksong is objectively hard, and if you're trying to argue otherwise you're either the mythical "god gamer" or just trolling. The game is unapologetically hard and punishing right from the beginning. The very second boss you encounter already hits you for 2 masks (which effectively means 3 hits and you're dead), and each time you try to fight him you first have to run back for a minute before you reach him. He even…

The very first boss in Hollow Knight, False Knight, does two masks of damage.

No, he doesn’t. Check for yourself at around 30:30 min mark: https://youtu.be/JNdJ5ozN8cU?feature=shared

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#176

Post by zimpenfish »

TriangleEdge wrote: post #83
furyofantares wrote: post #81

> Silksong as a game should not exist. It is so brutally difficult that it stretches the very definition of the word "game". Games are supposed to be fun. They are meant to delight with their whimsy. Sometimes, yes, they are meant to be challenging. But that challenge is in service of fun. Games, more than any other form of entertainment, offer skill challenges. As they've become more popular they've gotten better ab…

Spoilers: Silksong has arenas with 3 mobs that throw discs plus you. Idk about you, but I can't track 7 things moving at once. This isn't fun. Nor is it challenging, you just have to get lucky. I like Silksong, but the only way some the bosses were made challenging was because of constant adds. Hollow Knight rarely had this.

> you just have to get lucky.

You can definitely learn and not have to rely on luck - watch a video of someone good playing a bullet hell shooter[0] and getting a perfect score with no hits. There is not a world that exists in which you could accomplish that with luck.

[0] Touhou is probably the definitive example here. Something like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY7QEEnSGVU

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#177

Post by bernds74 »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #56
thaumasiotes wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article concludes with the thought "if you liked Hollow Knight, you won't like Silksong". That is the same conclusion that I and my brother both came to. The game is bizarrely punitive, from the very beginning, for no reason. It's as if they thought of it as being the next Hollow Knight expansion after Godhome, providing an additional challenge for the people who have beaten every pantheon with all bindings. ("T…

Is it really that bad? The beginning definitely ramps things up, but I don't think anyone who beat Hollow knight would call Silksong "punitive", at least not for the 10 hours I've played so far. The area I struggled in the most was clearly one I wasn't "supposed" to go into yet, but otherwise the difficulty curve is only slightly steeper than HK's early game. Some discourse makes it sound like we're thrown 20 hours i…

It is that bad, at least for me. I enjoyed the first 8 hours of Silksong, but it turned very quickly after that because the punishments were just completely outweighing the rewards. No health upgrade in that time, no meaningful combat upgrade, and just an endless amount of bullshit.

Like those birds that will always mirror your movement to stay just out of reach, move erratically otherwise so you're guaranteed not to get a hit in (forget about hitting them with your spear when they're in the air), and just when you managed to get under them where you might be able to land a hit they'll drop down on you to deal contact damage and flutter away again.

10 hours in, and I've not even started the game since Saturday afternoon, when I was expecting not to be able to drag myself away from it (being a huge fan of the first Hollow Knight).

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#178

Post by andrewingram »

rkomorn wrote: post #156
TriangleEdge wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoilers: Silksong has arenas with 3 mobs that throw discs plus you. Idk about you, but I can't track 7 things moving at once. This isn't fun. Nor is it challenging, you just have to get lucky. I like Silksong, but the only way some the bosses were made challenging was because of constant adds. Hollow Knight rarely had this.

The older I get the more I find boss fights off putting. I get literally zero satisfaction out of learning whatever pattern you have to learn to perform whatever correct action, at the correct time, you need to defeat a particular boss. It's just a time consuming chore. Edit: the "boss" escape sequences in the Ori games were also entirely frustrating and and unsatisfying to me.

I also found the escape sequences in Ori to not be much fun at all. Though when I replayed both games a couple of months ago, somehow I did the sandworm on my first attempt -- which was a huge relief because that one induced so much rage on my first playthrough.

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#179

Post by werdnapk »

alexchantavy wrote: post #90
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #49

> Silksong as a game should not exist. It is so brutally difficult that it stretches the very definition of the word "game". Games are supposed to be fun [...] I haven't actually played HK yet, and I don't normally play Souls-likes, but I did finally start playing Elden Ring about two months ago. Yes, I've had times where I'm cursing out loud because I've been trying to beat a boss for three hours without success, so…

When I was in college, I bought Demon's Souls and also started the most difficult semester I'd had yet with 3 classes deeply into my CS major. I was terrified of what lay ahead of academically, so I procrastinated by playing Demon's Souls. Yes, Demon's Souls was hard, but eventually I somehow I started passing dungeons and beating bosses. The rush that I got from that gave me what I needed mentally to persevere throu…

80s/90s kids dealt with this with almost all their games

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#180

Post by bernds74 »

pharrington wrote: post #126
thaumasiotes wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I played it for a while, but was (and am) sincerely super confused what people find so amazing in it. That's very easy to explain. It's a Kickstarter effect. Boardgamegeek is a website that, among other things, aggregates ratings of board games into a big master list of which games are the best, kind of like imdb. The list has been corrupted by Kickstarter - it turns out that, when a game with a Kickstarter campaig…

Nope! Alot of people just really love the game. I'm one of them! I only heard about the game after its release, and the first time I played it was in during the end of 2017. The only expectations I had for it were that it was a difficult exploration game. What captivated me was the music, the level design, getting lost before realizing what exploration options were available to me - I could go on forever about the ga…

Same here. Hollow Knight was simply wonderful - the graphics, the music, the characters, the boss fight designs, the melancholic feeling of the world. It's hard to say whether it was my best gaming experience ever because there's stiff competition, but it's definitely in the nominees. And I only heard about it way after the Kickstarter campaign.
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