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I am giving up on Intel and have bought an AMD Ryzen 9950X3D

michael.stapelberg.ch

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Re: I am giving up on Intel and have bought an AMD Ryzen 9950X3D

#171

Post by Marsymars »

energy123 wrote: post #103
ttyyzz wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced, what would be the use case?

Data science where you need to keep ~50GB of data in RAM and do intensive things with it (e.g. loop over it repeatedly with numba). You can't get use out of more than 4 cores because memory bandwidth is the only limitation. The data is too big for AMD's cache to be a factor. Threadripper is built for this. But I am talking about the consumer options if you are on a budget. Intel has significantly more memory bandwidt…

Framework Desktop?

Re: I am giving up on Intel and have bought an AMD Ryzen 9950X3D

#172

Post by hedora »

c0balt wrote: post #162
protocolture wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I made a machine with a Ryzen 9900X a while back and it had the issue that it would freeze when idling I also have this issue.

If you are on Linux, there are long time known problems with low power cpu states. These states can be entered by your CPU when under low/no load. A common approach is to go into the BIOS/UEFI settings and check that c6 is disabled. To verify and/or temporarily turn c6 off, see https://github.com/r4m0n/ZenStates-Linux

It’s also worth checking all the autodetected stuff that can be overclocked, like ram speed. That stuff can be wrong, and then you get crazy but similar bugs in linux and windows.

Re: I am giving up on Intel and have bought an AMD Ryzen 9950X3D

#173

Post by hedora »

microtonal wrote: post #59
homebrewer wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also be careful with overclocking, because the usual advice of "just running EXPO/XMP" often results in motherboards setting voltages on very sensitive components to more than 30% over their stock values, and this is somehow considered normal. It looks completely bonkers to me. I overclocked my system to ~95% of what it is able to do with almost default voltages, using bumps of 1-3% over stock, which (AFAIK) is withi…

Unfortunately, some separately purchasable hardware components seem to be optimized completely for gamers these days (overclocking mainboards, RGB on GPUs, etc.). I'd rather run everything at 90% and get very big power savings and still have pretty stellar performance. I do this with my ThinkStation with Core Ultra 265K now - I set the P-State maximum performance percentage to 90%. Under load it runs almost 20 degree…

I’ve had multiple systems that crash or corrupt data when underclocked, so running at 90% might not be what you want.

You can always play with the CPU governor / disable high power states. That should be well-tested.

Re: I am giving up on Intel and have bought an AMD Ryzen 9950X3D

#174

Post by mrheosuper »

whyoh wrote: post #3

It's crazy how unreliable CPUs have become in the last 5 years or so, both AMD and Intel. And it seems they're all running at their limit from the factory, whereas 10-20 years ago they usually had ample headroom for overclocking.

we have unstable "code" generator, so unstable CPU would be natural.

Re: I am giving up on Intel and have bought an AMD Ryzen 9950X3D

#175

Post by hedora »

hhh wrote: post #15
johnisgood wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does not fill me with much hope. What am I even ought to buy at this point then, I wonder. I have a ~13 years old Intel CPU which lacks AVX2 (and I need it by now) and I thought of buying a new desktop (items separately, of course), but that is crazy to me that it freezes because of the CPU going idle. It was never an issue in my case. I guess I can only hope it is not going to be a problem once I completed buil…

Just buy an AMD CPU. One person’s experience isn’t the world. Nobody in my circle has had an issue with any chip from AMD in recent time (10 years). Intel is just bad at the moment and not even worth touching.

I went further and got an AMD system on chip machine with an integrated gpu. It’s fine for gaming and borderline for LLM inference (I should have put 64GB in instead of 32GB).

The only issues are with an intel Bluetooth chipset, and bios auto detection bugs. Under Linux, the hardware is bug for bug compatible with Windows, and I’m down to zero known issues after doing a bit of hardware debugging.

Re: I am giving up on Intel and have bought an AMD Ryzen 9950X3D

#176

Post by fishtacos »

lmm wrote: post #166
michaelt wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "Dark Rock 5" marketing materials say it provides a 210 W TDP [1] and marketers seldom under-sell their products' capabilities. So if your CPU is drawing "more than 200W" you're pretty much at the limits of your cooler. [1] https://www.bequiet.com/en/cpucooler/5110

Feels like CPU manufacturers should be at least slapping a big warning on if they're selling a CPU that draws more power than any available cooler can dissipate.

In hindsight, I would have gone for an AMD deskop replacement laptop instead of the Dell Intel-based gaming laptop that I purchased last year. The CPU is the best the Raptor Lake line has to offer in mobile format (i7-13900hx) but there is no conceivable way for the laptop, ast thick as it is, to cool it beyond very bursty workloads.

This affects the laptop with other issues, like severe thermal throttling both in CPU and GPU.

A utility like throttlestop allows me to place maximums on power usage so I don't hit the tjMax during regular use. That is around 65-70W for the CPU - which can burst to 200+W in its allowed "Performance" mode. Absolutely nuts.

Re: I am giving up on Intel and have bought an AMD Ryzen 9950X3D

#177

Post by mrheosuper »

Ekaros wrote: post #67

Seems like failure in choosing cooling solutions. These high-end chips have obscene cooling needs. My guess would be using something that was not designed for TDP in question. Sufficient cooler, with sufficient airflow is always needed.

CPU TDP means nothing now. a 65W tdp cpu can easily consume over 100w during boost.

Re: I am giving up on Intel and have bought an AMD Ryzen 9950X3D

#178

Post by hedora »

adithyassekhar wrote: post #126
api wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The M series chips aren’t the absolute fastest in raw speed, though they are toward the top of the list, but they destroy x86 lineage chips on performance per watt. I have an M1 Max, a few revisions old, and the only thing I can do to spin up the fans is run local LLMs or play Minecraft with the kids on a giant ultra wide monitor at full frame rate. Giant Rust builds and similar will barely turn on the fan. Normal st…

I'd rather it spin the fan all the time to improve longevity but that's just me. One of the many reasons why snapdragon windows laptops failed was both amd and Intel (lunar lake) was able to reach the claimed efficiency of those chips. I still think modern x86 can match arm ones in efficiency if someone bothered to tune the os and scheduler for most common activities. M series was based on their phone chips which wer…

I have a modern AMD system on chip mini desktop that runs Linux (devuan), and have had M1/2/3 laptops. They all seem pretty comparable on power usage, especially at idle. Games and LLM load warm up the desktop and kill the laptop battery. Other than that, power consumption seems fine.

There is one exception: If I run an idle Windows 11 ARM edition VM on the mac, then the fans run pretty much all the time. Idle Linux ARM VMs don’t cause this issue on the mac.

I’ve never used windows 11 for x86. It’s probably also an energy hog.

Re: I am giving up on Intel and have bought an AMD Ryzen 9950X3D

#179

Post by hedora »

FeepingCreature wrote: post #96
izacus wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I somehow doubt that, are you looking at the same temperature? I haven't seen a laptop that would have thermal stop under 95 for a long time and any gaming laptop will run at 95 under load for package temps.

i7 8550u. Google confirms it stabilizes at 80-85C. That said, there's a difference between a laptop cpu turbo boosting to 90 for a few minutes and a desktop cpu, which are usually cooler anyway, running at 100 sustained for three hours.

There’s something very odd with those temps. It’s hitting 100C at > 95% iowait. The CPU core should be idle when that happens.

Maybe the pci bus is eating power, or maybe it’s the drives?

Re: I am giving up on Intel and have bought an AMD Ryzen 9950X3D

#180

Post by therein »

makeitdouble wrote: post #58
bell-cot wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on your priorities. That "performance on the table" might also be called "engineering safety factor for stability".

TBF using more conservative energy profiles will bring stability and safety. To that effect in Windows the default profile effectively debuffs the CPU and most people will be fine that way.

So now you're saying just accept the fact that they come pushed past their limits, and the limits are misrepresented. Factory configuration runs them faster than they could in a stable fashion.

That sounds terrible.

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