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996

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Re: 996

#171

Post by _9ptr »

regentbowerbird wrote: post #51
Aurornis wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies that try to demand extreme hours with average pay have very high turnover. As employees realize they’re getting a bad deal and that they can find a better ratio of pay to hours worked at other companies, they leave.

What happens when the companies band together to compress wages? Like what happened with the high-tech employee antitrust litigation. Individual employees are far more numerous (therefore harder to coordinate) and have way shallower pockets than companies, so the negotiation power is always going to be lopsided.

That's what unions are for.

Re: 996

#172

Post by [deleted] »

CalRobert wrote: post #152
Aurornis wrote: post #23

When founders put 996 in their job descriptions or Tweet about their 996 culture it’s a helpful signal to avoid that company. The only time I’d actually consider crazy schedules was if I was the founder with a huge equity stake and a once in a lifetime opportunity that would benefit from a short period of 996. For average employees? Absolutely not. If someone wants extraordinary hours they need to be providing extrao…

It's been popping up in the who's hiring thread, embarrassingly. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45105207

[deleted]

Re: 996

#173

Post by r_lee »

glhaynes wrote: post #136
grantdong wrote: post #18

In China, its birthplace, '996' always seen as practice of failed management. Because for at least half of the 72-hour workweek, most employee will mentally checkout (in Chinese we call this 摸鱼). Although middle managers know their subordinates are inefficient, they still impose working hour KPI on their team, so they can demonstrate their own value to upper management.

Because for at least half of the 72-hour workweek, most employee will mentally checkout Management seeing this and doing the calculation: “if they’re gonna be checked out half the time, we’re really only getting 36 hours of the 40 we’ve been promised.”

Introducing:

9117

The latest innovation in Management (unlocked with the power of AI)

Re: 996

#174

Post by untrust »

jackienotchan wrote: post #123

The first two quotes are from founders of: - BrowserUse - Founded 2024 - Greptile - Founded 2023 The third quote is from a VC who has never founded a startup himself and has a clear interest in pushing founders to trade work-life balance for his own quick returns. So none of these people worked on anything longer than 2 years. I wonder what will happen if we check back in 5–10 years. Will they still be doing and prom…

Every one of these quotes is from someone who would be junior or midlevel at best at any company. Not trying to be ageist but mid twenty somethings are filled with enthusiasm and fantastical ideas which are yet to be vetted or guided by real world experience. I agree with your skepticism here

Re: 996

#176

Post by holtkam2 »

I don’t get why people think 996 is even optimal for productivity in the medium or long term. If I work hard past 8pm I can’t sleep - my brain is still whirring. That results in worse sleep -> less memory creation & skill consolidation -> lower productivity.

In my mind, if you cared ONLY about productivity in the medium and long term, you’d probably do something like 9-7-6. So you still get a day off, and don’t work past like, dinner time. Still give yourself time to exercise, still give yourself time for social interaction, sleep can stay dialed in. I think someone doing 976 probably out-competes someone doing 996 in short order.

Re: 996

#177

Post by whstl »

996 is just theater for investors.

Saw this happening even at YC companies. There was always that stupid expectation of overworking, staying until 9.

The reality is that people twiddle thumbs.

And the disorganization and micromanagement power plays are enough to negate any additional worked hour.

This ranges from pure disorganization in terms of what to build to having 3 hour meetings with the whole fucking company where the CEO pretends they have something worthwhile to say for 3 hours.

Re: 996

#178

Post by jeremyjh »

petermcneeley wrote: post #84
jeremyjh wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You aren't going to spend 12 hours a day, 6 days a week working in your garden. When you get hot and tired, you'll stop. I think that is the more relevant difference in this particular topic.

> When you get hot and tired, you'll stop No? This is basically the philosophy of the "last man" Many great things require overcoming the weakness of the flesh. From the moment you understand the weakness of your flesh it should disgust you.

So you are saying you’ve worked in your garden for 12 hours a day? Multiple days in a row?

Re: 996

#179

Post by NaomiLehman »

Aurornis wrote: post #23

When founders put 996 in their job descriptions or Tweet about their 996 culture it’s a helpful signal to avoid that company. The only time I’d actually consider crazy schedules was if I was the founder with a huge equity stake and a once in a lifetime opportunity that would benefit from a short period of 996. For average employees? Absolutely not. If someone wants extraordinary hours they need to be providing extrao…

I don't understand what kind of job, except for some very, very fringe cases like a NASA active mission or an atomic threat, would require a person to pull all-nighters. And how is that productive in the long-term? It's not exactly easy to hire talent.

Re: 996

#180

Post by bad_username »

randomname4325 wrote: post #99

True story. I grinded hard at a startup for years. This was a decade ago so the concept of 996 wasn't part of the lore yet. But it was fun. We stayed late and I made life long friends. I worked closely with the founder (really awesome dude) as I was an early-ish employee. The company ended up not working, our equity went to zero and we got what you get when you don't get rich, experience. I ran into the founder rando…

I will forget names of people I haven't seen in a long while but whom I legitimately value and am glad to kave known. And I am not a founder type, who are being exposed to 10x people compared to me. It's just a human thing, don't let it bum you out.
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