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Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

lttlabs.com

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Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#171

Post by ronsor »

rs186 wrote: post #117
rowanG077 wrote: post #53

At such times I wish the USB consortium would flex their muscles. A high profile case that maliciously breaks interoperability.

If USB consortium cared about being consumer friendly, they would have mandated that USB cables clearly mark their capabilities, and require that every cable must transmit data. Instead we have this mess where you don't know whether a cable is good for laptop charging, and whether that same cable can be used for data in addition to charging. (skipping that data wire saves a few cents, that sounds like a great idea!)…

People often buy USB cables without data wires for security reasons, so personally I would like to keep them around.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#172

Post by exidy »

Xss3 wrote: post #152
pjerem wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren’t we talking about video out from the dock ? Because it wasn’t possible for Switch 1. After some time, some alternative USB-C hubs supported the Switch video output but it was basically reverse engineering and I totally remember this first "compatible" hub back in the early days of the console which happened to brick consoles. Nintendo is like Apple they : - Don’t want you tu use the Switch in unpredictable ways…

Again you're just excusing the lack of engineering time put into an onscreen message. 'Overheating detected, reducing video resolution'. Nintendo will earn millions by keeping it proprietary. Lets stop pretending this is about technical ability or 'protecting' the consumer from a bad ux.

> Nintendo will earn millions by keeping it proprietary. Lets stop pretending this is about technical ability or 'protecting' the consumer from a bad ux.

Nintendo ships a dock with every Switch 2. How big is the market for people buying aftermarket docks? Nintendo has always aimed very squarely at the mass market.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#173

Post by akimbostrawman »

mosquitobiten wrote: post #68
spartanatreyu wrote: post #3

Didn't know LTT's labs was already running. I'll be curious to see how their testing and data compares to gamersnexus testing and what their first catching a manufacturer's lies event will be.

yeah, they catch lies pretty regularly but they don't act like "OMFG THIS IS SOO BAAAD!!!". it's one of the things I like about LTT, they are more neutral or positive in their content. they try to be viral but usually don't ride the negativity/toxic viral wave.

Its better for business and sponsor relationships to be that way. That's why I prefer gamersnexus since they only serve the viewer and consumer, they can afford to tread on companies toes freely. Without a bit of sensationalism people and companies would never care.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#174

Post by goosedragons »

extraduder_ire wrote: post #157
aejtaetj wrote: post #148

For consoles, it was actually the original Xbox that started this trend, using a proprietary physical connector, but with a mostly standard usb protocol, for no other purpose than to be consumer hostile. Physical hacks was of course rapidly found in this case to adapt it to be standard compliant. Then again, with xbox360/kinect, the camera was using the usb procotol, but microsoft prevented it from working with pcs i…

There was no standard USB connector that the original xbox could have used that still had magnetic attachment.

The Xbox breakaway controller cables weren't magnetic. They also could have easily put those on normal USB cables because they were a couple inches from the port anyways.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#175

Post by masfoobar »

GuB-42 wrote: post #170
masfoobar wrote: post #73

With the behaviour Nintendo has been 'in the last few years' - I no longer will purchase Nintendo consoles. We purchased a Switch and the kids have enjoyed many games on it. After reading other comments on here, I am surprised my Switch has not been bricked - and I am not doing anything dodgy at all. As for the Switch 2. I was showing the announcement videos with the kids - they did not look excited for it. As for me…

> Sure we might not have Mario Kart World or Zelda or other Nintendo specific titles Well, that's why people buy Nintendo consoles. You don't buy a Switch 2, you buy the device needed to play Mario Kart and Zelda, whatever it is. In general, consoles are defined by their games, they are not general purpose machines and everything is to be seen from this angle. Hardwares specs don't matter, what matter is how well the…

If people want to spend £400 on a console, as well as £40-£100 on Nintendo games is their choice. I am sure there are many people who purchased a Switch 2 on launch day and now regret it, likely due to Nintendo's practices. If anything, it likely has made more people aware of Nintendo's behaviour in the last number of years.

With this, despite the fact Switch 2 might sell well this generation - I think Nintendo need to be very cautious next time. We shall see.

Personally, and I am not poor, but I think it's expensive to purchase Switch 2 + games when I legally do not own them. You are getting what seems to be known as a Revocable License.

This means many things. Its not just Nintendo cancelling or bricking your Switch 2 when you do (or presumably) something naughty... it means Nitendo can officially push for end of life to the console itself. While Nintendo may not do this to the Switch 2, servers for games eventually will. Paying nearly £100 for a game that might stop working in 7 years... unless you pay another £500 for their next console and move it over. LOL!!!!!

It does not make sense to pay this sort of money when it blurs the lines of ownership. We can go back-and-forth on this all day, but if people have no issues and still want to buy a Switch 2 is up to them. Again.. It's is their choice and I respect that.

I have explained this issue to my kids and they understand my point of view and why I wont buy a Switch 2. Of course, if they want to buy one with their own money - they can.

The type of model Nintendo are pushing works better like a Netflix monthly subscription.. or... perhaps more comparable to XBox Game pass. They will likely do this next time. I am just interested what their monthly price will be. I am sure it will be laughable!

The older generation can see past all the BS.. but the younger generation will blindly accept it. When they get older and see the differences to their first purchase.. then they can moan like I am now. It wont matter.. as the next younger gen will rinse and repeat. The cycle continue.

To me, like many things, the best way to make a statement is with your wallet. That's all I am doing. If I am the minority then so be it. I might be pointed or laughed at - but atleast I stood by my principles.

(Its similar with Microsoft Windows license going back to the 90s. I dont own it. I purchase the right to use it. I dont agree with it, so I use Linux.)

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#176

Post by [deleted] »

alex_f_k wrote: post #18

From lttlabs: > The inability for most docks to support the Switch 2 may not be malicious from Nintendo. It might just be a poor or lazy implementation of the USB-C specification From the verge [0], 2 months ago: > When I analyze the conversation between the Nintendo Switch 2 and its dock, I can see the two devices begin speaking in Nintendo’s own flavor of “vendor defined” language early in the conversation, before…

[deleted]

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#177

Post by fxtentacle »

cma wrote: post #139
fxtentacle wrote: post #138

"Test 5: DR_SWAP always rejected" That means the monitor tries to change its own role from USB host (which it defaulted to because it's the power source) to USB gadget. And the Switch rejects the request because it sees itself as the USB gadget (for example to exchange data when you connect it to a PC). The article itself also says "Our monitoring of the interactions with the USB-C monitor shows that the negotiation…

> And why would they? They are not in the business of selling USB monitors Not true, they block nreal to make them pay the store fee for an enabling app to make their usbc mini monitors work with the switch.

Assuming that you are referring to the Nreal Air VR goggles, those cannot accept a regular video signal over USB-C. They are NOT monitors. For making them work, they need to do pre-processing of the video stream on the host device, thereby degrading gaming performance. That's why they need an app, because they lack an integrated CPU/GPU and that makes them not compliant with the USB-C monitor spec.

And I believe that's also the real reason why Nintendo would block them: They make otherwise fluent games stutter, which will reflect badly on Nintendo and the game developers. Because people in general won't know that their Nreal Air is stealing some of the Switch's GPU performance and that they are creating performance issues themselves.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#178

Post by naikrovek »

grishka wrote: post #155
arghwhat wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switch currently runs in one of two modes: Docked and handheld. Games are written to expect those two modes, with rendering adjusted to those specifically and nothing else. Think of all the render settings in a PC game (in reality there are way more things the developer can adjust, but just for the sake of illustration), and assume there are instead two hardcoded presets which are selected based on whether or not the…

Ah so the Switch 2 dock has an extra fan? I didn't know that. Still, what happens if you connect a Switch 2 to a 1080p display? I assume it would render at 1080p, because rendering at 4K and downscaling for output would be too wasteful. Switch 1 even has a setting for that, allowing you to choose between 480p, 720p, and 1080p.

It renders at 1080p and the dock doesn't get as hot.

Note that the cooling fan inside the dock is for cooling the dock and not the Switch 2 itself. The Switch 2 has its own fan for that.

So while not everyone docks the Switch 2 to a 4K display, the Switch 2 dock must support that.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#179

Post by mathiaspoint »

naikrovek wrote: post #178
grishka wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah so the Switch 2 dock has an extra fan? I didn't know that. Still, what happens if you connect a Switch 2 to a 1080p display? I assume it would render at 1080p, because rendering at 4K and downscaling for output would be too wasteful. Switch 1 even has a setting for that, allowing you to choose between 480p, 720p, and 1080p.

It renders at 1080p and the dock doesn't get as hot. Note that the cooling fan inside the dock is for cooling the dock and not the Switch 2 itself. The Switch 2 has its own fan for that. So while not everyone docks the Switch 2 to a 4K display, the Switch 2 dock must support that.

DP -> HDMI conversion hardware is pretty intense. I haven't owned a device that does this and doesn't at least get warm.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#180

Post by naikrovek »

grishka wrote: post #137
arghwhat wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of misunderstandings about USB PD communication, in particular Vendor Defined Messages. The LTT video kept making this mistake, and mixing in misunderstandings around messages to the eMarker chip itself (SOP'). It was a painful watch. Vendor Defined Messages have is part of any normal PD exchange, as they're simply anything that isn't defined by the PD spec itself. You'll see VDMs when connecting any de…

Why reject switch 1 accessories though? Sure the video resolution will have to be limited to 1080p, but that's kinda expected and I'm sure switch 2 can do that anyway

> Why reject switch 1 accessories though?

Because the Switch 2 is a different machine. Games being backwards compatible (via emulation) doesn't mean the hardware is (or has to be) backwards compatible. Different display chips, different display protocols, etc.

People made all kinds of claims about how the Switch 1 wasn't USB Type-C compliant when it was discovered that the Nyko dock kept frying the power management IC in the first Switch console. I think a lot of that false communal knowledge has carried forth to the Switch 2, unfortunately.

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