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Framework Laptop 16

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Re: Framework Laptop 16

#171

Post by danudey »

yogorenapan wrote: post #157
9x39 wrote: post #140

Anyone using Framework for a daily driver that can compare to an M-series Macbook? Specifically, battery life on your OS. Does anything compare to a MBP these days? From a value proposition, it seems good. Our group definitely goes through keyboards and mainboards from spilled tea at least annually it seems, but AppleCare is just a no-brainer, and away we go. I still drive on my original M1 at home without complaint,…

I have an early batch framework (i7 11th gen) still in use (I have no other laptops or a PC). A few benefits I've gotten out of it: - I spilled almost a liter of milk on my keyboard, really gummed it up. Keys stopped working. Got it replaced for pretty cheap. - Linux just works. No weird driver issues But... - Battery life is horrible. I pretty much just have it plugged in whenever I can. When off battery, I use the…

FWIW, I had a Dell laptop that I put Ubuntu 22.04 on when I got it, and the battery life was atrocious; closing everything except Firefox, closing every FF tab but one, stopping background services, setting the screen to half brightness, I got about an hour and a half of battery life.

Went and installed Slimbook Battery and left it at default settings and got several more hours of battery life without having to close everything. Had to reinstall later and just installed TLP and left it at default settings and still getting far better battery life.

Not sure why Ubuntu is so cripplingly bad out of the box when it's so easy to fix, but if you haven't tried that it might be worth checking out.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#172

Post by poisonborz »

Fantastic update, it has everything that made the first version a dealbreaker for me - it was just too weak. I feared Framework will position its 2in1 as a "student laptop", glad to hear they expand on it.

We sorely need more competition in the 2in1 segment, there aren't many good options. Either gaming laptops (no long commitment, bad build quality) or Lenovo Yogas (bad value, limited/weak hw options).

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#173

Post by lotharcable »

TomLisankie wrote: post #139
aidenn0 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the AMD driver was named "radeon" nvidia was better, but since "amdgpu" came out things have flipped.

Is this because the driver itself has changed in its operation or just from the name change breaking lots of code that referenced the "radeon" name?

AMDgpu is the driver for newer GPUs, radeon is for the older GPUs. This is like circa 7 or 10 years ago.

So it is both driver changes and architectural changes.

There is also AMDGPU-PRO, which is the proprietary version based on AMDGPU. Used to be you'd need it for ROCm, but that hasn't been true for a while not. There really isn't any reason to use the "pro" version anymore, unless you have a some special proprietary app that requires it.

Open source GPU drivers are based on Mesa stack. So they share a common code base and support for things like Vulkan.

So it is sorta similar to how DirectX works. With old-school OpenGL drivers each stack was proprietary to the GPU manufacturer so there was lots of quirks and extensions that applied to only one or another GPU. That is one of the reasons DirectX displaced OpenGL in gaming... Microsoft 'owned' DirectX/Direct3d stack.

Well the open source equivalent to that is Mesa. Mesa provides APi support in software and it is then ported to each GPU with "dri drivers".

For gaming things have improved tremendously with "Proton", which is essentially Wine with vastly improved Direct3D support.

This is accomplished with "DXVK", which is a Direct3D to Vulkan translator.

This way Linux essentially gets close to "native windows speed" for most games that support proton in one way or another.

Which means that most games run on Linux now. Probably over 75% that are available on Steam, although "running" doesn't mean it is perfect.

One of the biggest problems faced with Linux gaming nowadays is anti-cheat features for competitive online games. Most of the software anti-piracy and anti-cheating features games use can technically work on Linux, but it is really up to the game manufacturer to make it work and support it. Linux gamers can sometimes make it work, but also they get flagged and booted and even accounts locked for being suspected of cheating.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#174

Post by akho »

hecanjog wrote: post #160
9x39 wrote: post #140

Anyone using Framework for a daily driver that can compare to an M-series Macbook? Specifically, battery life on your OS. Does anything compare to a MBP these days? From a value proposition, it seems good. Our group definitely goes through keyboards and mainboards from spilled tea at least annually it seems, but AppleCare is just a no-brainer, and away we go. I still drive on my original M1 at home without complaint,…

I have a first generation framework 13, I upgraded the mainboard last year to the 12th gen intel i7-1280P mainboard. My original mainboard was from the first batch with the bios battery issues but still works, though I haven't had success getting it to run standalone in the coolmaster case yet. I'm happy with my framework 13 four years later. I might switch to the stiffer hinge and/or a matte screen in the future. Mi…

> the first batch with the bios battery issues

This was some seriously infuriating bullshit. I remember them blaming it on intel on the forums, even though no other laptop had the issue.

In my case, replacing the battery with a random aliexpress ine fixed the issue, and they could have just said so.

Really made me lose trust in the company.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#175

Post by starkparker »

trelane wrote: post #118
nrp wrote: post #4

I'm happy to answer questions around the new product.

What all does your Linux support entail? Do you offer support for both Linux abd Windows models? Is the firmware identical for the models that ship with Windows and those that ship with Linux? How well does Linux work out of the box? What kind of small glitches can a Linux user expect?

> Is the firmware identical for the models that ship with Windows and those that ship with Linux?

Yes. The firmware upgrade processes can differ, but there's no difference in firmware, and you can buy a Framework kit with no OS provided.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#176

Post by pcdoodle »

simpaticoder wrote: post #59
vzaliva wrote: post #40

The idea of Framework laptops sounds great! But I’m wondering: has anyone done an economic analysis comparing buying a Framework laptop a few years ago and gradually upgrading it, versus buying a similar popular brand laptop and just upgrading by getting a new model? I’m not trolling, I’m genuinely considering Framework as my next laptop.

I have a 1st gen Framework 13, Intel 11th gen CPU, running Ubuntu 24. It had a faulty design around the BIOS battery on the motherboard that I had to fix, and do some soldering on[1]. It's remarkable because they didn't say "Send the laptop in and we'll fix the design defect" they said, "First take a photo of the inside of the laptop to verify the serial number, then place an order, then do the repair yourself." This…

You won't believe it but I can pull 30 hours at min brightness sitting at the windows desktop on the 11th gen 13 framework (Running Win10LTSC).

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#177

Post by hruzgar »

nrp wrote: post #4

I'm happy to answer questions around the new product.

Not specifically about the new laptop but will you guys ever do a 15 inch non-gaming laptop that looks similar to a macbook? I really want to buy one of your products but 13 inch is a bit too small for me while the Laptop 16 is a bit too bulky.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#178

Post by danudey »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #155
bodge5000 wrote: post #82

I'm glad the AMD GPU option still exists, I don't have great experience with NVIDIA on Linux. The rest of the upgrades, like the new top cover and keyboard, are very welcome

I've never had anything but positive experience with Nvidia on Linux (which I've been using for 5 years or so now). That said, I'm on a desktop and not a laptop, so the hardware isn't the same. My experience might not be representative of what laptop users see.

On a laptop with multiple GPUs (Intel and nvidia Quadro) running Ubuntu and Wayland, trying to get the nvidia card working has been a nightmare. Until a recent reinstall, I couldn't load the nvidia driver or I wouldn't be able to log in to my system (graphically, I mean). If anything changed on my system to remove the blacklist I had for those modules I'd have to spend an hour trying to figure out what changed so that I could get back to work.

Now that I have it working I see random glitches here and there that I can't pin down. Some Electron apps I have to turn off GPU acceleration or they won't get any windows showing up - they launch, the process exists, they're in the dock as active, but the window doesn't appear at all.

Getting a new laptop from work to replace this one and I'm really hoping it won't have nvidia hardware - or at least, if it does I can disable it and the Intel GPU will work fine also.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#179

Post by lushy-typeable »

regularfry wrote: post #165
lushy-typeable wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be nice to see a 5070 Ti, 5080, or even Quadro-grade RTX 5000 ADA for graphics-oriented workloads. I'm not sure the type-c (200-230w) would be sufficient to run these cards at their reccomended TGP (150w) + CPU (50w) + charge - not that most 16" productivity-oriented notebooks do (70-115W).

The spec says the type-C PSU is 240W, which is faintly terrifying.

Issue is that the circuitry to convert the USB-C PD 20V to e.g. 12V and 5V for componenets results in a power loss - so realistically take 5-10% off any USB-C adapter's wattage.

Gaming/productivity laptops of similar size ship with 300W power bricks now (e.g. MSI Vector 16 HX AI with RTX5090 ships with a 330W adapter to satisfy its 240W system power). It's also why most still use their own connector (ASUS decided to use their own connector due to conversion efficiency and heat issues with USB-C at high wattage).

Still, 330W pales in comparison of the TGP of a desktop-class RTX5070 (requires 250W). Nevermind the RTX5090's requirements (575W).

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#180

Post by starkparker »

simpaticoder wrote: post #59
vzaliva wrote: post #40

The idea of Framework laptops sounds great! But I’m wondering: has anyone done an economic analysis comparing buying a Framework laptop a few years ago and gradually upgrading it, versus buying a similar popular brand laptop and just upgrading by getting a new model? I’m not trolling, I’m genuinely considering Framework as my next laptop.

I have a 1st gen Framework 13, Intel 11th gen CPU, running Ubuntu 24. It had a faulty design around the BIOS battery on the motherboard that I had to fix, and do some soldering on[1]. It's remarkable because they didn't say "Send the laptop in and we'll fix the design defect" they said, "First take a photo of the inside of the laptop to verify the serial number, then place an order, then do the repair yourself." This…

> Additionally, and non-trivially, the laptop's battery life is not good, and it drains very quickly on suspend

Drain on suspend in particular has largely been resolved on newer mainboards, firmware, and kernel updates, though I don't have an 11th-gen Intel and haven't run Ubuntu for a long time.

Kernel updates fixed this on my 12th-gen, firmware updates fixed it on my 7040, and my Ultra 7 155H never experienced this issue.

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