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4chan will refuse to pay daily online safety fines, lawyer tells BBC

bbc.co.uk

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Re: 4chan will refuse to pay daily online safety fines, lawyer tells BBC

#171

Post by sillysaurusx »

oceansky wrote: post #136
fruitworks wrote: post #41

I wouldn't be so sure it's an ideological stand. 4chan got hacked a while back because they were running a totally outdated software stack. It's been pretty much abandoned by its owner hiromoot. If they aren't going to update the site for basic maintainance, they definitely aren't going to implement all this chat control/ age verification bullcrap. I suppose a resistance to change is good when your competitors are bu…

I laughed at hiromoot. Very clever nickname

I know moot, but what’s the hiro part mean?

Re: 4chan will refuse to pay daily online safety fines, lawyer tells BBC

#172

Post by kibwen »

dpc050505 wrote: post #157
macinjosh wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy is a form of government, not an ideology. Just because +50% of an electorate thinks something is OK, doesn't make it so.

The form of government that applies democracy is rooted in the ideology that the majority knows best, which is the ideological version of democracy.

> rooted in the ideology that the majority knows best

Let's be careful here, the point in favor of democracy is not that the majority knows best, but rather if that people are to be subject to laws, then those same people should have an equal share in determining what those laws are. IOW, the point of democracy is to give the people what they deserve, and no more.

Re: 4chan will refuse to pay daily online safety fines, lawyer tells BBC

#174

Post by mindslight »

GuinansEyebrows wrote: post #96
mindslight wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

System's got that on lock by setting it up so the people most predisposed to fight the government are actually cheering on the new taxes. Information/policy/consent flowing the opposite way from how is commonly understood has been my critique of democracy for a long time, but the effect just keeps growing. Social media is a hell of a drug.

> System's got that on lock by setting it up so the people most predisposed to fight the government are actually cheering on the new taxes more likely, proving that this group of people never actually believed in anything.

I don't see how that is a more useful model than what I said. Maybe for rallying people to oppose the current problems. But it feels like such preaching to the choir mainly serves to exacerbate the "culture war" that helps shut off people's thinking to begin with. So pushing that way might help win the immediate battle, but it also helps lose the overall war.

Re: 4chan will refuse to pay daily online safety fines, lawyer tells BBC

#175

Post by mathiaspoint »

lokar wrote: post #77
sunshine-o wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the only power they have left. The UK government has lost control of what happen in the physical world on their own island so now the bureaucrats play a fantasy game where they are gonna enforce their rules and dominion in their former colonies or the digital world.

While I disapprove of what the gov is doing here, I think it’s incorrect and unhelpful to put all the blame on them. AIUI, the UK is a democracy and these policies are generally supported by the voters.

The people in charge are largely hated by the electorate. They won by default effectively due to a quirk of how UK elections work (which was less of a problem when the monarch/aristocracy was still involved to counter balance things like this, but now that that's gone the state is effectively out of control.)

Unless by "democracy" you mean "sleepwalking administration everyone hates" the current UK government is unusually undemocratic.

Re: 4chan will refuse to pay daily online safety fines, lawyer tells BBC

#176

Post by WillPostForFood »

HPsquared wrote: post #148
burkaman wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading the polling questions, it doesn't actually seem that contradictory. > To what extent do you support or oppose the introduction of age verification checks to access platforms that may host content related to suicide, self-harm, eating disorders and pornography? Most people say support, presumably thinking "yeah those things seem bad and kids shouldn't be able to look at them". > How likely or unlikely would yo…

It's all very "how to lie with statistics".

The world is complicated, and normal to have conflicting ideas.

Re: 4chan will refuse to pay daily online safety fines, lawyer tells BBC

#177

Post by mattnewton »

jdietrich wrote: post #92
123pie123 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

really? From my anecdotal evidence, is that it's fucking stupid and hated

Weirdly, the majority of the British public a) support age verification, b) aren't willing to use age verification themselves and c) don't think it'll actually work. https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/britons-back-online-safety-acts-...

Doesn’t seem weird at all, Britons are saying a) I agree children watching porn is bad but b) I value my privacy online and c) don’t think sending in photos of an ID is really going to stop kids. Actually seems pretty reasonable, and a reasonable democratic representative should look at that and say “well, how else can get A if method B is unpopular and unlikely to work?”

Instead they seem to have conflated B with A. Maybe they are afraid that any criticism on this method is interpreted as attack on doing anything at all for kids watching porn on the internet or even twisted into some kind of endorsement.

Re: 4chan will refuse to pay daily online safety fines, lawyer tells BBC

#178

Post by bananalychee »

Bender wrote: post #143
gs17 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> yes this is a thing and most replies to threads are 4chan-GPT Do you have proof of this?

They bragged about it for a while but after the bragging stopped my proof is only anecdotal. When the United States Agency for International Development was defunded the bots went quiet and shortly thereafter the site was hacked using a vulnerability that had been well known since 2012 . It was peaceful for a few weeks prior to the hack and for a couple weeks after the hack. Most of the fake racists disappeared from…

If that's true you should be able to see that in the public traffic statistics.

Re: 4chan will refuse to pay daily online safety fines, lawyer tells BBC

#179

Post by scythe »

lokar wrote: post #77
sunshine-o wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the only power they have left. The UK government has lost control of what happen in the physical world on their own island so now the bureaucrats play a fantasy game where they are gonna enforce their rules and dominion in their former colonies or the digital world.

While I disapprove of what the gov is doing here, I think it’s incorrect and unhelpful to put all the blame on them. AIUI, the UK is a democracy and these policies are generally supported by the voters.

The goal of the policy is supported by the voters. The polls used to measure this are shifty at best about the implementation details. Who doesn't want to prevent kids from looking at pornography? But plenty of things are popular if you ask people in a way that makes them ignore how it plays out in real life. Laws against tall buildings are a pretty good example. Land reform was extremely popular in many socialist countries until it actually happened. I'm sure you can think of other examples.

In this case the ministers know what the problems are. The policy is not new or unique to the UK and it has been done better in Louisiana of all places:

https://reason.com/2024/03/18/pornhub-pulls-out-of-seventh-s...

> The difference is in the details of complying with Louisiana's law. Verifying visitor ages in Louisiana does not require porn sites to directly collect user IDs. Rather, the state's government helped develop a third-party service called LA Wallet, which stores digital driver's licenses and serves as an online age verification credential that affords some privacy.

Re: 4chan will refuse to pay daily online safety fines, lawyer tells BBC

#180

Post by 4ndrewl »

mathiaspoint wrote: post #175
lokar wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I disapprove of what the gov is doing here, I think it’s incorrect and unhelpful to put all the blame on them. AIUI, the UK is a democracy and these policies are generally supported by the voters.

The people in charge are largely hated by the electorate. They won by default effectively due to a quirk of how UK elections work (which was less of a problem when the monarch/aristocracy was still involved to counter balance things like this, but now that that's gone the state is effectively out of control.) Unless by "democracy" you mean "sleepwalking administration everyone hates" the current UK government is unus…

Tell me about this "quirk" and winning by "default" (and how this never applied to other recent elections).
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