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Eleven Music

elevenlabs.io

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Re: Eleven Music

#171

Post by bjt »

matthewfcarlson wrote: post #121
bjt wrote: post #115

What did you train the model on? Assuming it was trained on all the music online, without permission, it's kinda shitty to take all musicians' work like that and use it to make a product to put them out of business. I draw a distinction here from LLMs used for writing code. Plenty of people freely put their code on Github or in Stack Overflow with the expectation that people could freely copy and use it. Relatively l…

> Created in collaboration with labels, publishers, and artists, Eleven Music is cleared for nearly all commercial uses, from film and television to podcasts and social media videos, and from advertisements to gaming. For more information on supported usage across our different plans, head here. Not sure what that actually means but it suggests they at least tried to get their training material legally.

A few thoughts...

First, where are you seeing that? And where does the "head here" link point? I'm not seeing it on the linked page or on https://elevenlabs.io/music-terms.

Second, that language is not saying "we got permission to use all the music we trained on". It seems more directly addressed at the rights they're giving you, as opposed to the rights they have to the training material. It could just as well be based on an opinion from their general counsel that it's fair use to train on all the music they downloaded, so it's "legal enough".

Third, and as I tried to emphasize above, legal is not the same as ethical. Even if they win the legal argument about fair use, it would still be shitty to take someone else's work and use it to train a model that put them out of business.

Re: Eleven Music

#172

Post by satyrun »

rpdillon wrote: post #158
lc9er wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wait until the rush of commenters that insist you’re wrong about being offended that they want to automate and commodify every aspect of your life.

Made this point elsewhere, but the music industry has been on a downward slide towards making music as cheaply as possible for some time now. If you look at Taylor Swift's first 12 number one hits, each of them was written by a different writer. Compare that to bands from 30 years ago, many of whom wrote and recorded all the songs themselves. Labels don't sign rock bands anymore because actually recording a rock band…

There is all kinds of music being made with guitar/drum/bass still.

All kinds of indie, all kinds of metal, all kinds of rock, all kinds of everything.

The main difference is no MTV or rock radio. Prog rock? There is probably more prog being made now than ever.

Re: Eleven Music

#173

Post by gosub100 »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #162
mrtksn wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know right? AI is in the uncanny valley still. But every now and then I stumble upon something made with AI. I have no proof but I'm convinced that the song here is AI made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL1Fg1QnDig I liked it but it still feels like AI to me.

I think we're just going to have to get used to it. That is, just drop worrying too much about whether something is AI and just stop at whether you like it or not.

I think there should be a legal mandate for truth in labelling just like there is on food. If I could, I would block all AI generated and TTS-voiced videos on YouTube. I don't want AI-generated anything. the fact that it's being forced on us from all angles is proof that it is no good.

Re: Eleven Music

#174

Post by gosub100 »

neonnoodle wrote: post #14
abdullahkhalids wrote: post #2

OT: Has anyone tried the opposite - ask AI to listen to music and determine the notes or chords being played? Or watch someone playing an instrument and give a textual output of what notes/chords they are playing.

No, that would be useful, and as such AI is incapable of doing it.

It's not as lucrative. For human produced songs you can usually get the sheet music for them. If not, musicians can listen and do it manually, but it's not common enough to need AI to do it. Just transcribing for one instrument isn't that useful for many cases. Often they need an arrangement for multiple instruments, and depending on which instruments, the key may need to be transcribed. This is mostly referring to classical music and traditional western songs.

Re: Eleven Music

#175

Post by JKCalhoun »

mrtksn wrote: post #164
JKCalhoun wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're just going to have to get used to it. That is, just drop worrying too much about whether something is AI and just stop at whether you like it or not.

It doesn't work like that, art is a package. At this point it's interesting that AI can do these things but the momen it wears off it stops being worthwhile. Artist + AI as a tool is working fine I believe but stuff produced by people who don't have taste shows.

Well, that kind of bolsters my point though: if it sucks, hate it. Why invest so much energy and angst into whether it is AI or human?

Re: Eleven Music

#176

Post by JKCalhoun »

gosub100 wrote: post #173
JKCalhoun wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're just going to have to get used to it. That is, just drop worrying too much about whether something is AI and just stop at whether you like it or not.

I think there should be a legal mandate for truth in labelling just like there is on food. If I could, I would block all AI generated and TTS-voiced videos on YouTube. I don't want AI-generated anything. the fact that it's being forced on us from all angles is proof that it is no good.

Or whether any tools were used to retouch a photo?

We've been living in an age of artificiality for some time now.

Re: Eleven Music

#177

Post by gosub100 »

Krasnol wrote: post #112
viccis wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Händel used to be a bit like a pop musician. Handel was never a "bit like a pop musician." This fundamentally misunderstands how music during his time, mostly funded and enjoyed under religion and wealthy patronage contexts, was listened to. Mostly only the wealthy listened to his works, and those elite audiences were prone to viciously enforcing stylistic norms. The only real way the working class heard his works w…

Well, in the end, the only thing this snobbery does is that it makes you look/sound old. Nobody cares. I've heard the same thing when electronic music came up. The old ones couldn't stop complaining about this "computer music" where nobody does real handwork anymore. I see it as democratisation of art. Everybody can do it now and this is a good thing. Let's face reality. There is no way back. We'll see what comes of…

It's not art. It's democratization of crap.

Re: Eleven Music

#178

Post by janalsncm »

feoren wrote: post #36

We imagined a utopian future where robots did our menial work so we were free to be creative. Instead we got a dystopian future where we do more and more menial work so our robots can poorly emulate creativity. It's not too late to turn it around, but that requires recognizing the humanity of 99.9% of people, and the 0.1% who own everything would rather create their own synthetic (subservient) humans than recognize t…

I hate to beat up on this because I agree with the spirit of it. But I think this is a little too cliche for my taste:

> that requires recognizing the humanity of 99.9% of people

I will go as far as to say there was never a time in history when people got rights because some other group “recognized the humanity in them” or something. No, it was through necessity. The plague in Europe caused a shortage of workers and brought an end to feudalism. Unions got us Saturdays off through collective action. The post-war boom and middle class prosperity happened because employers had no other options. Software engineering was lucrative because there was a shortage of supply.

Even if there is some future where robots do chores, that’ll only leave time for more work, not poetry writing time, unless there is a fundamental change in how the economy is structured, like I outlined above.

Re: Eleven Music

#179

Post by janalsncm »

kingstnap wrote: post #71
feoren wrote: post #36

We imagined a utopian future where robots did our menial work so we were free to be creative. Instead we got a dystopian future where we do more and more menial work so our robots can poorly emulate creativity. It's not too late to turn it around, but that requires recognizing the humanity of 99.9% of people, and the 0.1% who own everything would rather create their own synthetic (subservient) humans than recognize t…

It's only from a position of extreme arrogance that you can complain that machines have not yet done enough for you. But it's the fun thing about being humans, I suppose. Our insatiable greed means we demand endlessly more.

It’s not greedy to want economic stability and good health. It is greedy for people who have more wealth than they know what to do with to hoard it.

Re: Eleven Music

#180

Post by BizarroLand »

mrtksn wrote: post #164
JKCalhoun wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're just going to have to get used to it. That is, just drop worrying too much about whether something is AI and just stop at whether you like it or not.

It doesn't work like that, art is a package. At this point it's interesting that AI can do these things but the momen it wears off it stops being worthwhile. Artist + AI as a tool is working fine I believe but stuff produced by people who don't have taste shows.

Every time something comes along like this there's a revolt.

Photoshop.

First Analog synthesizers and then digital synthesizers.

Multitrack audio recording.

Digital Recording.

Autotune.

Vocaloids.

These things change the nature of the game and invalidate the labor of the people who used to be winners, and I get it.

If you take the money and the fame out of the equation, though, the point of art is not to become rich and famous, it's to communicate.

Eventually, we will find artists who are finally able to send in a way that others want to receive thanks to AI.

And there will be people like me and probably you that prefer to only hear what a human had to say straight from their own mouths. And that's fine. There are no walls.

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