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Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

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Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#171
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even then, limiting calorie intake isn't all that difficult; there's a reason why intermittent fasting took off and so many people were getting results from it.

Not necessarily. Some people respond well too intermittent fasting but not everyone. Some people respond to keto but not everyone. And just because you respond doesn't mean it's gonna take you to where you need to be. I've always been skinny but for some reason I've gained weight recently. Even with keto, intermittent fasting, tirzeptide, and workouts twice a week I have only lost 5 lbs in months. When I was skinny a…

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Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#172

I find it fascinating how much a pretty large group of people just hate semaglutides and seemingly need to believe that it's some kind of Faustian bargain. I'm not talking about the people who are cautious or suspicious, that's more than reasonable, but it's clear that it's not cautious optimism in many.

You've got a crowd of people raised in a Calvinist society who think nothing good comes without suffering, you've got people who feel this is a cheat where discipline should win out, and you have a bunch of people who are used to all easy solutions coming with either a bad lottery ticket or externalities on other people/the environment. They can all agree that they're waiting for the other shoe to drop. That said, we…

> Calvinist society who think nothing good comes without suffering

Or, some of us older folks have been around long enough to understand that we are, in an uncontroversial and factual way, the long term medical trial, and long term effects found in that trial, along with the eventual market withdrawal, may not show up until 10 to 20 years later, creating a healthy distrust in the money/corporations behind the, sometimes outright crafted [1], early medical trials.

[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-02299-w

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great because we had no other way to address this problem at a population level. Not any realistic ones, anyway. Like, I figured we were just never going to solve it, given the two possibilities were "radically re-engineer US culture such that moving to the US doesn't make previously-skinny people fatter" (with other countries heading the same direction as us needing to make similar moves, one supposes) or "find…

I helped my dad lose 50 lbs by finally, after 10 years, getting him to give up bread, sugar, potatoes. It took buying him 2 months of a bluetooth glucose monitor. Once he saw what certain foods do, he believed me finally. At 65 years old, healthier than I remember since he was 40 and I was a teen. It doesn't require some weird injection.

There's anecdotes, and there's science.

Individually, there's (previously) been nothing better to suggest than "try harder (and, maybe, smarter)".

Statistically it was almost useless, but it's the best we had. It's not bad advice exactly, it's just extremely unlikely to work for long-term, sustained weight loss.

It also very much appears to be the case that weight gain and loss are heavily influenced by environmental factors. Skinnier countries aren't skinnier because the people there have more willpower, it seems, but because they live in a skinnier country and are surrounded by the culture, laws, physical layouts of the created world, et c., that come with that. It'd be kinda weird if we expected "just try harder" to work very well when that's evidently not the mechanism by which skinny countries are skinny. Alternatively, if it is willpower doing it, we're just adding a step, because then it appears that environment strongly influences willpower, instead, since the same observations hold.

Sure, sometimes it works for individuals. In fact, it often works temporarily, causing a yo-yo effect. It can work for long periods (many years without a slip) but that's rare.

If your solution to the obesity crisis is "people need to try harder" your solution is demonstrably not helpful. Can it work for one person? Yes. Over a population, will it? No, it won't, it's amazingly ineffective, even very expensive high-touch interventions involving multiple experts aimed at weight loss and lifestyle change and such are wildly less effective than "inject GLP-1 agonists" or "move somewhere skinnier".

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great because we had no other way to address this problem at a population level. Not any realistic ones, anyway. Like, I figured we were just never going to solve it, given the two possibilities were "radically re-engineer US culture such that moving to the US doesn't make previously-skinny people fatter" (with other countries heading the same direction as us needing to make similar moves, one supposes) or "find…

I helped my dad lose 50 lbs by finally, after 10 years, getting him to give up bread, sugar, potatoes. It took buying him 2 months of a bluetooth glucose monitor. Once he saw what certain foods do, he believed me finally. At 65 years old, healthier than I remember since he was 40 and I was a teen. It doesn't require some weird injection.

Just scale that solution to millions of people and the comparison will be relevant.

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people (will only speak to America), view being fat as a literal moral failing. Gluttony or overeating are not the sin, but being fat. (From that perspective:)a miracle cure that allows someone to stop being fat is like an indulgence (in the Roman Catholic sense). It’s a cheat, a shortcut that allows the unworthy to reach a state they do not deserve. My opinion is to wait long enough to validate there are no lon…

> Many people (will only speak to America), view being fat as a literal moral failing. Gluttony or overeating are not the sin, but being fat. I feel like I've seen and heard more of the opposite: The trend is to avoiding anything that might make someone feel blame for arriving in their situation. With obesity the trend is to blame some combination of "our food supply", trending science topics like microplastics or th…

> Even Eliezer Yudkowsky, a figurehead of the "rationalist" movement, has written about "metabolic disprivilege" and claimed that his genetics do not allow him to lose weight through dieting. This thinking runs deep.

I thought EY's point was different. Am I misremembering? I thought it was about not being able to do mental work productively when dieting enough to loose weight(maybe maintain a low weight too, though I do not remember that being mentioned explicitly).

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people (will only speak to America), view being fat as a literal moral failing. Gluttony or overeating are not the sin, but being fat. (From that perspective:)a miracle cure that allows someone to stop being fat is like an indulgence (in the Roman Catholic sense). It’s a cheat, a shortcut that allows the unworthy to reach a state they do not deserve. My opinion is to wait long enough to validate there are no lon…

> Many people (will only speak to America), view being fat as a literal moral failing. Gluttony or overeating are not the sin, but being fat. I feel like I've seen and heard more of the opposite: The trend is to avoiding anything that might make someone feel blame for arriving in their situation. With obesity the trend is to blame some combination of "our food supply", trending science topics like microplastics or th…

I agree with you, but it's important to remember that "dieting down" is way harder for a lot of people. I am and always was skinny through my life. Whenever I need to eat less, I can do it without much effort. However, I have friends who would faint if they tried to diet down the way that I do. I don't know why that happens, but I've seen happening and it changed my perspective about this subject. If Ozempic can help with that, I will never criticize someone who uses it.

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find my compulsion towards videogames is decreased. Not eliminated, but I feel much less compelled to be playing all the time.

I'm curious if this affects smartphone usage. E.g., "compulsive" feed-checking and doom scrolling.

I wonder how it compares to Adderall.

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious if this affects smartphone usage. E.g., "compulsive" feed-checking and doom scrolling.

I wonder how it compares to Adderall.

Adderall produces a very, very different experience and is prescribed to address a very, very different root cause.

Re: Ozempic shows anti-aging effects in trial

#179

I find it fascinating how much a pretty large group of people just hate semaglutides and seemingly need to believe that it's some kind of Faustian bargain. I'm not talking about the people who are cautious or suspicious, that's more than reasonable, but it's clear that it's not cautious optimism in many.

> I find it fascinating how much a pretty large group of people just hate semaglutides and seemingly need to believe that it's some kind of Faustian bargain.

Some of us also remember previous weight loss drugs which had similar levels of hype and later got pulled because of really bad side effects.

If I needed to lose 100+ pounds, I'd be at my doctor tomorrow asking for it. The side effects of 100+ pounds are way worse than anything semaglutide might cause.

For people who are using it to lose 10-20 pounds, the tradeoff isn't as clear.

I am cautiously optimistic and hope that semaglutide lives up to the hype. lots of people will benefit if it does.

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