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Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

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171–180 of 621 posts

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#171
post #50

I'm glad the Mastercard-Visa duopoly is finally getting some attention, these companies shouldn't be allowed to exercise the financial control they do. Payment infrastructure is not a free market - you can't just choose to pay via some other processor if they turn you down, they ARE the processors. Therefore, they should be under intense scrutiny when they refuse.

Does the government view it as 2 throats to choke and so the risk is 'worth it' or is it just a condition of gilded age II and corp and political greed and corruption?

Why did we make all those monopoly laws only to completely forget they exist or why we ever made them?

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#173
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no meaningful attention, here. Until it is on the US Gov't radar, this 'attention' is just a collection of upset redditors furiously posting forum messages which will fissile out in a few months, at most. Besides, it's not like you can boycott Mastercard or VISA.

You can switch to Amex, but here in Argentina like half of the postnets don't recognize it. Also there are a few QR networks, some made by the banks like "Modo" and other no-a-bank ones like "MercadoPago" and a few minor ones. Even the guy/gal that sells hot bread on the street accept most of them.

Amex is only available on Steam in the US. I have a basic free Amex card as a backup, but I wouldn't be able to use it for my Steam purchases. Presumably because the processing fees are just that much higher.

Somehow I'm able to use a JCB card though. As far as I'm aware, JCB cards aren't even available here.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#174
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are definitely a lot of links in this chain. Maybe leafo can chime-in and say exactly what happened with Itch.io. But I suspect that someone downstream of Visa/Mastercard anticipated that the payment card companies would not permit the transactions and relayed that back up to the merchants, and they shut it off preemptively. But it's hard to say. Mastercard is now saying that they never said or did anything. So…

FWIW Mastercard are simply lying, as anyone who has ever had to touch adult payment processing will tell you. There's even a (non-public) list of keyword banned terms.

Indeed, and the keywords are vague and they refuse to rigorously define them. Adult payment processors just run around in the dark until they trip over one of these landmines.

Even the (rare) categories of content that have been legally determined to be non-obscene (e.g., werewolf erotica [1]) can fall under banned keywords (in this case, “bestiality”).

It’s a stupid extralegal system and ought to be destroyed.

[1] https://time.com/archive/7118599/california-prisoner-fights-...

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#175
post #130

Before getting all worked up, I would advise people to look at what games exactly were banned, and see if it’s a case of power abuse or simply a case of “we can all agree that rape and incest games are disgusting and have no place in an entertainment web site visited by kids”.

You should bark at Steam if you want more curation. What people are pissed at is a card payment network abused for moral regulation.

Furthermore, there's no public list of exactly which games were removed.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#176
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no meaningful attention, here. Until it is on the US Gov't radar, this 'attention' is just a collection of upset redditors furiously posting forum messages which will fissile out in a few months, at most. Besides, it's not like you can boycott Mastercard or VISA.

> it's not like you can boycott Mastercard or VISA In many countries, if you pay locally, you absolutely can. China's UnionPay, India's UPI, PayNow in Singapore, PromptPay in Thailand, PayPal, Cash App, and more.

You need the government to cajole the market to create safe and free inter bank transfer programs. We're not going to do that in the USA -- no one's buddies would get their kickbacks!

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am quite surprised how wrong opinions like yours are. There is no argument of free speech here, they are a private business and as such can decide what they allow and don’t allow on their network. It’s no different than if cloudflare had a click through that said no adult material. You can hand wave around well they are a monopoly or some related argument but the government does not see it that way. Visa and Master…

"There is no argument of free speech here, they are a private business" Constitutional rights are also civil rights - businesses may not violate them nilly-willy in this specific manner which causes damages to people.

You’re confusing constitutional rights with business obligations. The First Amendment restricts government actions, not private companies. Mastercard isn’t violating free speech by refusing to process certain payments. Civil rights laws protect against discrimination in specific categories like race or religion, not content moderation. Unless adult content is a protected class, your argument doesn’t apply.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was Mastercard's rule, but any one of the companies in the payment network could have brought it up to Valve. The whole system is set up so one transaction has to go through up to 6 different companies, and they all have to abide by each other's rules. The US Internet Preservation Society explained it recently: >Each of these companies maintains its own terms of service and each of them can block a transaction by…

> was Mastercard's rule, but any one of the companies in the payment network could have brought it up to Valve Did Mastercard threaten Valve? Or did Valve precomply?

Valve's payment processors told Valve they would withdraw payment processing unless Valve banned specific categories of game from their online store.

The payment processors did not cite any law; Valve selling those games was not illegal. Instead they cited Mastercard's rules, which say that they cannot submit transactions that Mastercard believe might damage Mastercard's goodwill or reflect negatively on its brand. Those rules also say Mastercard has sole discretion as to what it considers breach these rules, and Mastercard gives a list of what it deems unacceptable:

https://www.mastercard.us/content/dam/public/mastercardcom/n...

> 5.12.7 Illegal or Brand-damaging Transactions

> A Merchant must not submit to its Acquirer, and a Customer must not submit to the Interchange System, any Transaction that is illegal, or in the sole discretion of the Corporation, may damage the goodwill of the Corporation or reflect negatively on the Marks.

> The Corporation considers any of the following activities to be in violation of this Rule:

> 2. The sale of a product or service, including an image, which is patently offensive and lacks serious artistic value (such as, by way of example and not limitation, images of nonconsensual sexual behavior, sexual exploitation of a minor, nonconsensual mutilation of a person or body part, and bestiality), or any other material that the Corporation deems unacceptable to sell in connection with a Mark.

The payment processors threatened Valve first. Mastercard doesn't need to threaten Valve or even contact them at all to force its will on them: it just needs to threaten its payment processors, the same outcome is achieved. Valve did not remove games from sale until threatened. If they did not do that, and instead initiated some kind of fightback, they would most likely find themselves completely removed from all payment processors, with no recourse. If you want to call that "precompliance", so be it.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am quite surprised how wrong opinions like yours are. There is no argument of free speech here, they are a private business and as such can decide what they allow and don’t allow on their network. It’s no different than if cloudflare had a click through that said no adult material. You can hand wave around well they are a monopoly or some related argument but the government does not see it that way. Visa and Master…

The argument from free speech is that government should not be allowed to censor, regardless of the mechanism. Payment processors currently offer that mechanism.

If the government were coercing Mastercard into censorship, that would be a free speech issue. But absent state pressure, a private company choosing not to do business with certain content isn’t censorship in the constitutional sense. That’s just market behavior. If you want to challenge the influence of financial infrastructure on speech, that’s a separate (and valid) policy debate but it’s not a First Amendment violation.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#180

I really hope Steam will start to accept Bitcoin (via Lightning possibly) over this. Due to its decentralization, it is censorship free by default. And if Steam accepts Bitcoin, that would be a massive boost for the liquidity aspect of BTC: You could basically sell your BTC to anyone who wants to make a Steam purchase, making it similarly fungible as Amazon gift vouchers.

Didn't Steam previously accept Bitcoin and then stop as no-one was using that option?
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