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‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

latimes.com

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Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#171

Post by cholantesh »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #130
wds wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming the entirety of history began on October 7th, 2023, this is true.

For most of the kids falling over themselves in this conflict, history between the two nations began October 8th 2023. For the adults that run the world and been around 50+ years watching this shit, they just want it to be over, and don't really care who wins. At this point Palestine has no cards left and no friends helping them. They have lost, and the adults want them to go away without human-shielding themselves t…

>human-shielding

The '''adults''' are not the ones accepting this and other canards that Israel and their apologists keep bandying about.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#173

Post by tiahura »

reverendsteveii wrote: post #148
tiahura wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

wild cuz it was sorta the rest of the world that started the "Semitic tribal warfare"

Semitic tribal warfare has been a thing since the Mari–Ebla hundred years war c. 2500BC.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#174

Post by js8 »

alkyon wrote: post #87

In ideal world international peacekeeping forces would be deployed in Gaza. The peace and two state solution could only be enforced by imposing severe sanctions on Israel including possibility of aerial NATO strikes like in the former Yugoslavia.

Is two-state solution possible? Just look at the map of the territories under palestinian control, they're bantustans. Israel/Palestine is factually one state, which simply doesn't accept half of its population as citizens.

You could also say that "two-state solution" has been tried in 1948, but (for whatever reasons) didn't work out. So support for 2-state is just a form of delaying the inevitable.

I am now firm believer in one-state solution as the most fair one. Peter Beinart has some good arguments in its favor.

And I think it would be a poetic justice for all the racist settlers (or islamists) to have the people they hate as their neighbors.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#175

Post by neonnoodle »

anonfordays wrote: post #145
wds wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I am aware of the Nakba, and how Palestinians fight to keep their land and lose.

Has there ever been another group of people that have lost so many existential wars in a row but still demand they keep their land?

the First Nations of North America

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#176

Post by mardifoufs »

dijit wrote: post #39

That's really sad. The Isreali man really should not have been there, but I have to recognise a couple of things. 1) I don't know what anyone is saying except, ironically, plea's of someone near the camera man asking the Israeli man to "Shoot me". 2) I do not know what lead up to this confrontation 3) I have been in a circumstance before where a large group of people are acting frantic and in a threatening way and it…

The settler was in someone else's land, and actively participated in displacing the people that were "terrifying" them. An easy way would've been to just leave. It's not even controversial, almost every country on earth recognizes that the settlements are illegal.

If a Russian soldier in Ukrainian territory shot some civilian in the face, I guess you'd also have put yourself in their shoes and given them the benefit of the doubt? I mean, they were terrified!

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#177

Post by exasperaited »

xdennis wrote: post #36
BenGosub wrote: post #14

Cold blooded murder on video and it is still not enough for our countries to take action.

[flagged]

It's literally a guy who has no right building his home where he has built it on land he doesn't own, and has spent years aggressively and violently trying to drive other people out so his friends and family can build houses on land they don't own where they also don't have the right to build, defending himself from a crowd whose behaviour he provoked.

This is undeniable.

The man saying "shoot me" is saying it to a man who is a documented illegal aggressor. It's rhetoric, not actually an invitation to shoot him, and wouldn't excuse the man shooting him if it was.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#178

Post by myrmidon »

saubeidl wrote: post #75
pif wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's two violent ethnoreligious fascist movements with dreams of cleansing the land - that they both think was promised to them by God! - of the unbelievers. Only one of them enjoys the support of the West and it's coincidentally the one that is currently succeeding at realizing their vision.

You a re being very reductive in order to make your point, but thats fair enough, I don't entirely disagree.

But I would like to point out that the situation is significantly less symmetrical than the picture you paint:

Yes, lots of Israelis treat the other side as second class citizens (apartheid analogies make a valid point).

BUT if you flipped the power distribution, and gave the Palestinian side a fully functional modern army, then we would no longer need to be arguing about the semantics of "genocide", because practically every single jew in the region would be killed within weeks. There is significant restraint on the Israeli side that they deserve quite some credit for, in my opinion.

I believe it is very important (and right!) to keep the ruling side (Israelis) "honest", and to speak out in favor of the "underdogs", but the "both sides" argument feels dishonest and misplaced here to me, and IMO "the West" fully supporting the Palestinian side would have been genocidal from the start, and escalated into an unmitigated disaster basically immediately (my position is that the current situation is still a barely "mitigated disaster", and de-escalation instead of October 7and its lead-up would have been an actual possibility with some effort from all sides).

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#179

Post by jakelazaroff »

jcranmer wrote: post #150
mc32 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. But before you could “run away” if you were willing to. Today you don’t have places to run to without running into other people willing to defend their places. In the past you had lots and lots of peoples who just got erased as modern concepts of fairness and justice didn’t work the same way. See the warring states period.

The last major landmass to be settled I believe is Madagascar, only settled ~1500 years ago, with only scattered, remote islands remaining unsettled past that point. Madagascar itself is an island, albeit one of the largest in the world, so enough to constitute 'major landmass' in my book; discount all island groups entirely, and the unsettled lands haven't existed for over 10,000 years. What that means is that all o…

Tangential to your main point (with which I agree) but New Zealand was only settled ~700 years ago.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#180

Post by mc32 »

jcranmer wrote: post #150
mc32 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. But before you could “run away” if you were willing to. Today you don’t have places to run to without running into other people willing to defend their places. In the past you had lots and lots of peoples who just got erased as modern concepts of fairness and justice didn’t work the same way. See the warring states period.

The last major landmass to be settled I believe is Madagascar, only settled ~1500 years ago, with only scattered, remote islands remaining unsettled past that point. Madagascar itself is an island, albeit one of the largest in the world, so enough to constitute 'major landmass' in my book; discount all island groups entirely, and the unsettled lands haven't existed for over 10,000 years. What that means is that all o…

Pop density before the 1870s was generally low in most places with a few exceptions.

After all there was no "industry" it was 95% + agrarian, pescatarian, pastoral. Many populations had a preference for coastal, riparian settlements and mountainous areas were less favored... but were where displaced peoples could move to. People clumped, they were not evenly distributed so any region would have unsettled areas --just like today you have vast areas in Alaska that are not populated -even Wyoming. There are towns here and there but most areas of those states are not "populated" though they are under local, state and federal control. Government did not work that way back a few hundred years ago.

The Zulu only relatively recently moved into ZA (around the same time as Europeans maybe a bit before --the Khoisan are the native peoples of ZA).

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